Hello all.

Instead of incurring the cost of replacing my JCW head AND cam, I was wondering if it would be beneficial to install (only) the Schrick cam.
I have asked around about this but no one seems to be able to tell me if this is a viable option. I am just curious if the cost of the Schrick cam and install is worth it for the performance benefit or if I should swap out the head as well?
Any ideas?

Cheers, Doug.

 

and you don't have to take the head of the motor, but the most gains will come from the head work. The JCW head is very close to stock with only minor differences. If you want to do the head later, you can always move the cam over....

Matt

 

I personally doubt you will see substantial gains from a Shrick Cam absent an "enhanced" head.

 

Lots have done the mods this way and been relatively happy, even if you can't take full advantage without head work. heck, you can't take advantage of the STOCK cam without headwork!

Matt

 

Matt, you seem to have made my point.... If you can't take advantage of the stock cam without headwork, why bother with the expense of a Shrick cam (without headwork)?

 

since you can't really open the motor up without head work, any mod "leaves value untapped" but we still do it anyway. I don't see using 40% of what a product has to offer as bad, if that 40% of an improvement is more than you have now.

I don't subscribe to the notion that you have to get 100% of what anything could potentially offer in a perfect world to justify spending the money on it. head work can always be added later, and one can take advantage of the rest of the cam then. But keep in mind a cam installed is around $500, and a head without a cam is around $1500-$2k or MORE. I'd say it's better not to look at what you can't take advantage of, but too look at what you can take advantage of, and what the money could do with other parts, and compare that to the roadmap of mods, to make a good choice. Also, some parts can be gotten below retail (I saw a Shrick going for $300...) and this will change the balance of the decision as well.

I actually did it the other way. I did the head, with improvements I'm not taking advantage of until I get a cam.... Wasted potential and money, or a freakin' nice mod that will provide even more later? I know how I vote!

Matt

 

How about this line of reasoning: If a Shrick cam were to give you only 40% improvement and the installed price were $500, the value of the improvement would be somewhere around $200 ($500 x 40%). Is it worth it to drop $500 to get $200 of benefits???? Personally, I would rather save up to get an enhanced head. Even with a stock cam with an enhanced head, I would be getting more than $200 worth of benefits.

 

The real question is what will the $500 get you elsewhere... That's the proper opportunity cost.... even if choked, if the gain you get is on par with what $500 would do elsewhere, it's a good deal. If you get better results with the $500 elsewhere (and you can't buy just a quarter of a head) then I'd say go with it.

But I still don't agree with the you have to get the most out. NONE of the mods bolted onto the car give you everything that you can get without a fully integrated build!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

And isn't this the life? 2 year old asleep. PRegnant wife asleep. Me on NAM!

Matt

 

How about a 17% s/c reduction pulley? (If memory serves, enologuy has the JCW (14.6%) s/c reduction pulley; swapping a 17% pulley for the 14.6% pulley would arguably yield a better outcome than a Schrick cam.

An integrated build is the first place to start. A proper tune might get more out of the engine than a Schrick cam in isolation.

Definitely the life.... And +1 on the HAPPY NEW YEAR part!

 

So I don't know if the small bump would be better or worse. But other than pulley, $500 doesn't do too much for our cars.

Matt

 

Which was why I was making the point for the head enhancement over the Shrick cam w/o an enhanced head.

But in all honesty, there are so many add-ons to enologuy's car, it would seem to be screaming for a sorting-out on a dyno with a dedicated ECU tune. So, maybe the $500 should be put into a future mods account and when the account gets to the right level, a comprehensive sorting-out could be undertaken.

 

to spend other peoples money!

But the answer to the original question really doesn't exist. If you don't have the $, then the decision is done. If you do have the $, then labor comes into it. A while ago I would have had a cam installed for me, but it's so fricking easy on our cars that it's an afternoon job, even if you've never done it before..... Without a doubt the head and cam with a good tune will be the best, but if you do your own labor, if the cam gives you 5 hp that's about $100/hp. If the head gets you 15 hp for $2k, that's worse $/hp but a much better overall bump. Who knows if the numbers are right, but they both get worse if you pay someone to do it for you, and there's lots of labor for a head....

What it really comes down to is what is the performance target for the motor? If you don't have one the spending never ever stops. If you do have one and can get there with just a cam and a tune, the decision is done. If you can't get there with just a cam and a tune, the decision is done as well. Heck, if just a tune stands a chance of getting there, that's the best place to start. If the goal is tons o' power, then none will get you there and you'll have to bolt on a turbo!

So, the cam will add to the JCW head, worth it? Up to you.
The cam will add more with a modded head for sure. Worth it? Up to you.
A modded head in itself is pretty nice. Want to stop there? Up to you.

Have at it and have fun.

Matt

 

Someone told me it would be a shame to eliminate all the JCW parts on the car. Now, knowing what minimal enhancement they provide, I don't care if I replace all of them. Case in point, the totally crimped and therefore restricted exhaust system!
I am looking to enhance the breathing of the top end to compliment the M62 supercharger...if it ever comes to be.
If or when the M62 is made available, I will have the ECU done and hopefully be at or near my target of 250 wheel horsepower. I say 250 because I do not want to start changing internals.
Thanks again all who contributed to this thread.

Cheers, Doug.

 

Ha! Matt has just defined the dilemma facing anyone who wants to mod their car - how much hp & ft/lbs do you want (and the corollary being how much can you afford)????

 

Out of curiousity, how did you arrive at the objective of 250 whp?

Separately, if you are looking to enhance the breathing of the top end, you really are looking at a head enhancement; a cam swap absent a head enhancement won't get you to where you want to be.

Sounds like you should seriously consider the idea of a head enhancement fund and put what you were planning on spending on the Schrick cam into the fund.

Lastly, a M62 project will likely require re-thinking/replacing a lot of what you have already put into the motor. Some examples: 380cc injectors from the JCW kit will definitely be replaced with even larger injectors and probably will require replacement of the injection fuel delivery system; the crank overdrive pulley will also probably go as will the JCW s/c reduction pulley. And, you will definitely need an enhanced head to handle the additional CFM from the M62. Plus, with the additional hp & ft/lbs from the M62, you will probably need to upgrade the clutch (and maybe the transmission).... What is the saying - you can have as much hp & ft/lbs as you can afford????

 

Since we are here - would it be totally dumb to add the cam to a stock (non-JCW) head?

 

you'll get something, but not everything. It makes sense in some cases, not in others.

best advice I can give is define the final target, buy what you need as you can to get to your target, and don't waste money on parts that you will take off and replace later, unless they were cheap.

Matt

ps, the way I heard it is "It's not how fast you CAN go, it's how fast you can AFFORD to go!"

 

If you are just getting started on your modification path, the general consensus regarding the best bang for the buck is to swap out the s/c pulley for something smaller. How much smaller is the subject of another debate though.

Happy modding!

 

Matt - yes, I noticed that earlier and took note of it. Understanding that you will not get the best without some headwork, I was still curious ( and a little ignorant) about the levels of gain in this config.

My disposition towards cars has changed of late, and I just can't seem to get off the modding wagon (this includes my VW)

 

Hi - no, its not my first mod. I'm slowly modifying the mini for more open track days here in Sydney. The car presently has the AmD stage one kit with suspension and brakes modifications

 

There have been many posts on the head first.. then the cam and other mods will be allowed to build more power!! the head is restrictive, however, not really THAT restrictive.. and adding the cam to a stock head will, as stated above, build more power. The FULL bennifit of the cam wont be reached untill the head is upgraded! And these roller camshaft will go from one head to the next without issues.

The biggest investmant is the head, if looking at other mods..however, it allows ALL the other mods to come into play with better results!! Cam in the JCW head should pull more than in a stock head, and the SOP meter should feel it!! And then when you do up grade the Head.. more power is there!! If the car being down for a week or two , isnt an issue, send the JCW out to get worked!! Then you end up with your " Port and Polished JCW Head", and you will have the name "JCW"and the add'l power!! You are just down the time for the head work!! With us, it is 7-10 days turn around ( plus you save tieing up a few bucks in core fees..)SOOooo..... park the MINI for two weeks and make it happen!! cool??

Just me...................................

Thumper

 

anyone have an idea of what is the cost for the JCW head with bigger valvs and ports known also as stage 2?

 

Not a clue about a JCW stage 2 head...I might guess that you are referring to one of these...?
http://www.dmhmotorsports.net/MiniTuning.html#engine

http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=64
...look towards the bottom for stage 2 info

The JCW site shows nothing related to this:
http://www.johncooper.co.uk/JohnCoop...e+Tuning+Kits/


Good luck and happy heading

 

is the stock head with a bit of CNC work, and not a lot at that.

Matt