"East Coast has no love for the West Coast"

didn't some rapper say this on an awards show?

God I must be bored to tears to post that!

 

LOL
Now that there's a BIG ol' gapin yaw ain't it Kudos for the dyno & dremel time Sid

A good labor day weekend all. I'm motorin outta here til Monday. Look forward to a good read when I get back. Everyone B safe

 

Now if you really do your homework you will see that is was posted first in thread 320 which is ... well you get the idea. Thanks for the support . I knew we could get over 15,000 views by dinner time .

Randy
M7 Tuning

601 posts and 15,029 views

 

It was my point to question the idea suggested by Max that the AGS may have been at a dis-advantage in the test since it was suggested by Max that the AGS relies on the ram air effect, an effect not present during the dyno test.

Frankly, I didn't and don't see that any of the intakes uses a ram air effect.

this seems like an area of interest on its own, but it looks like Max is distracted more by the post count. Spin on!

 

dodge questions, evade getting pinned down, misdirection, dodge questions evade getting pinned down, misdirection....maxmini's got skills that president Bush would envy.

Oh well. eventually Bush's approval ratings did fall....7 years later.

 

that looks pretty sick yo!! i like it, its really ready now......................:smile::smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
no wonder U werent returnin' anybodies Pm's, looks like u were a little busy

 

bored nahhh!! it just sounds to good to not post!

 

Just Finished doing mine! Thanks for the great Idea!

 

You're welcome...where's your gallery? I wanna see your PS Mini

0 tickets in 10 years

 

Now i have to check this thread while i am at home

M7,
I have done the test you are asking us to perform with you. I didn't need a $750,000 test facility, just a $60K dyno and a couple of cars. Both cars, MINI and a B6S4 (just happened to be dynoing that day) had our FOAM filter and a famous pleated brand. Both had the same basic outside dimensions. Both filters were new and un-oiled (just to keep it more comparable do to the varience in oil that could be applied). On the 165WHP mini, both filters were very close, and ours showed a slight 1-2WHP gain (many runs were done with each). On the 290WHP Audi once again both showing similar numbers ours was slighlty ahead by 2WHP pretty consistantly. Now 1-2WHP who cares,thats not enough to feel on the road. This proves that both filters, using the actual measured surface area (length x width x hieght) flow basically the same.

When by the pleated manufactures claims their pleated filter acutally has 2 times the surface area as a similar size foam, it should have twice the amount of flow or potential to flow. I find it hard to belive do to them both producing the same HP.

Filters have let say "atomosphere" surrounding the filter that air can be drawn from. This doesn't get twice as big with a pleated vs foam in the same size.

We keep talking about making this filter bigger by 2 times because of the pleats, how about we take it and make it smaller to match the foam surface area?? Basically the pleated filter guys would say no way! A foam filter that is 5"x8" and a pleated that is 2.5"x8" should flow the same, right, no they don't because they both draw from the same size "atmosphere".

We already fight an up hill battle with customers about our foam filter vs. the famous pleated type, and that is why we go into great detail about this and that is why we stick up for them so much. We firmly belive the work the same in most condition and a little better when dirty.

By no means is your filter type bad, they are eqauls in flow when sized the same. All filter manufactures have worked toward that filter that flows like a bare tube. And with all the new technologies, and fibers used to make filters, most all types are nearly there. That is why there isn't a huge difference in flow when sized the same.

But our filter we use on our intake is bigger, and it is because we have the room to make it bigger, which in turn it should flow more. And i think this great test shows that.

In the end, it comes down to 3 main things that makes someone by this part. Price, Performance, Appearence. And everyone will be buying them based on there own order of importance. Someone that is concerned with appearce may go for the AGS because the SOUND, and how cool the carbon shield looks. Then there will be that person that is concerned about price and will go for the PILO intake, which still produces great gains over stock. The ALTA intake will fit that person that wants the performance, price is somewhat of a concern.

We all 3 (i know there are many more out there) hit different types of customers. There is always going to be that guy set on the AGS that we will never catch, and there is always going to be that PILO intake guy that you will never catch. All we can do is provide the most accurate info about our intake in hopes that it will attract that 2% buying market to us.

Threads like this helps everyone out. It shows ours make good power, it shows how different and inovative your is and it shows the PILO intake and how much HP per dollar you get. Once again, 3 different buying customers.

Thanks again for the hard work done here, and for the sprited conversations!

 

Jeff nice to hear back from you . Great post . I think that S&B is as interested in how both styles of filters stand up to a particle test which is why you need the sophisticated test equipment. They feel the flow will be similar but feel that the foam type lets a lot more " dirt ' thru which in turn will in time hurt the motor.This is their theory not mine but it is in part the reason we chose the pleated filter. They are still very interested in testing your filter against theirs with you or your representative present. I agree it is nice to have such a spirited discussion and this is a dusey 609 posts and 15,351 views you have to be kidding me

Randy
m7 tuning

 

How easy or hard the intake is to install might also factor into a person's decision on which one to buy

 

Randy....thanks for your thoughts.....I appreciate that you read all that..I know it was lengthy...but I like many of us am very passionate about what we are all trying to achive in improving the Mini...

I have to say that AGS pretty much sums it up....I mean CAI is the only other thing....although I am sure if I was to sit around and come up with somethign I could..heh heh....anywho....thanks again....if anything smacks me over the head I'll be sure to let you know

 

Sid,

is this the way your car has been or did you just do this and what improvements , if any did you feel?

 

Bob,

I took some good advice and went into the garage to chill I've had the M7 heat shield for some time but hadn't put it on due to custom work needed to integrate with the Alta TMIC. Once fitted, I open up the intake opening to match the heat shield as much as possible. I was long past the point of return since this hole was started. I also dremeled out the blocked portion of the Aero grill at the right side to allow as much air in as possible. No way to measure inprovements but I'll let you know how it feels after today's drive

 

MSFITOY,

Have you had a chance to re-read and re-think this post you made?

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=492

I'm waiting for an apology.

 

Andy, with all due respect, in light of the fact that you neither conceded that you might have come off as critical nor even considered changing or apologizing for any of your words, I can't see why he would then be expected to reconsider.

 

Have you been following this thread at all? I don't recall criticizing MSFITOY or his methods with this dyno tests. Rather, it is the M7 apologists like yourself who are putting down the testing methods and results. Re-read this entire thread and you'll see what I mean.

 

I completely disagree with your appraisal. We may be critiquing and chiming in for the betterment of our understanding, but I at least have never claimed that they were at all wrong. I happen to be a big supporter of numbers and constructive interpretations/criticisms. That is what breeds progress. I just make it a point to fall short of implicating ANYONE. The thing is, how could they possibly know which way is right when no information existed? That is how I see it.

Now, I will not speak for anyone, but I think that the offense caused has been by people who are trying to de-rail the natural progress of data analysis. These guys put their time in so we could discuss. Yet, people come on and take jabs or go off topic or whatever, just to prevent analysis from being digested. That is what makes things seem like they border on time wasted. Surely, though, there is much to appreciate in the analysis if we keep this to the issue at hand, man...the intakes...

Read: Let's leave him alone/not bother anyone about things which are not the topic of the thread...

 

I'll agree to this: the dyno testing was done fairly well, the results were useable within the margin of error (1% is generous...that would be 1.5 hp). The point was to get some numbers, not more speculation.

on the other hand, extrapolating to road conditions is totally speculative and where most of the BS comes in: it is tempting for a low dyno performer to claim road condtions would show different (better) results, but again, that is speculation.

 

Today:

Yesterday:

Also yesterday:

 

If you go back over the heap, Maxmini implied that the dyno conditons were perhaps negatively skewed as far as the performance of the AGS, which he stated would benefit from its ram air like effect under road conditions, a situation not provided by the dyno.

that is an example of a speculation, not a measured condition. not entirely un-reasoncble, but not to be confused with the measured results either. It also piqued my interest in how much ram air effect might be there for the AGS and whether it is there for any of the intakes.

Tuls added some clarity, but what I saw from Maxmini was a diversion. Any wonder why M7 gets the scrutiny?

 

Don't want to get/keep things off track, but we have to set the record straight here:

Post 414 by ingsoc:
"Also, on those runs, the AGS reached 101 mph [power peak] 0.03 secs FASTER. I can only therefore figure that the dyno guy lifted his foot, because the AGS was ahead all the way til ~101 mph. The AGS was stopped at 104, but the ALTA continued [to redline, 105]. Maybe the AGS is faster up top, too, but he just lifted and made them even???"

Post 619 by ingsoc:
"We may be critiquing and chiming in for the betterment of our understanding, but I at least have never claimed that they were at all wrong. I happen to be a big supporter of numbers and constructive interpretations/criticisms. That is what breeds progress. I just make it a point to fall short of implicating ANYONE."


edit: editorial - Andy is always posing questions, but in this thread I've only seen Kaelaria with repeat smartass 'I told you so' posts.

 

It's fascinating to watch the pattern of certain tuners.

1) New product is hyped, claimed to do lots of amazing things.
2) Product is questioned by community.
3) Tuner either supplies irrelevant data or refuses to post any data at all.
4) Product is questioned by community.
5) Tuner states that happy customers will have to supply data.
6) Product is questioned by community.
7) Happy customers test product and it fails to live up to expectations.
8) Product is questioned by community.
9) Tuner claims faulty testing method/setup, or that the benefits are "unmeasurable".

 

Oops, spoke too soon.
Well, he hasn't made any disparaging remarks about Sid/MSFITOY, or the testing procedures, IIRC.