Yep, this appears to be the best test of intakes that I've seen so far. Kudos to those involved.

BTW, the pattern I described doesn't just apply to MINI tuners either. I've seen it on lots of boards.

 

In my opinion, there is a large difference between pointing out slight divergences from the ideal [the dyno guy running differently some runs, the BLIND AND ONE-OFF testing procedure not being perfect - things which are completely beyond the best human control] and questioning the very basic principles upon which a perfectly good test is proposed and executed. I maintain an opinion that this was a great test and that it was invaluable for the community.

Lemme remind us of something- human knowledge is built through a continual process of revision. Credit Kuhn for pointing that out. When we do a trial, we interpret and propose revisions for the next trial or propose theories upon which further information is tested. Knowledge proceeds thru such revision almost exclusively and only on rare, ground-breaking occasions do we depart from the existing framework. I STRICTLY believe that if you look at my comments, they are not maligning the test whatsoever; they are instead meant to interpret the results from the test. This way, this test will be have been fundamentally successful. We will have not just obtained data but also learned from it.

I have spoken with MSFITOY many times and like the man very much. We tend to understand each other. He has not once expressed any reservation to me about anything that I have said, an opportunity to which he knows he is always welcome.

Now, let's get back to the intakes!

 

Well i get back from spending a nice day on the water racing sailboats and I see you all are still at it. My god men get outside and enjoy nature or something LOL.

Ok let s catch up on what craziness I have been missing.

From JLM

"Frankly, I didn't and don't see that any of the intakes uses a ram air effect.

this seems like an area of interest on its own, but it looks like Max is distracted more by the post count. Spin on! "

If you HONESTLY look at the pic posted by Msftoy and think that there is no " ram air effect " you are suffering from a worse case of M7 denial than Andy is.

I am not distracted my the post count but very encouraged by it as well as the PM's and orders stemming from it. We owe that you you guys for keeping the thread lively and informative. Thanks !

From Wenzor

"dodge questions, evade getting pinned down, misdirection, dodge questions evade getting pinned down, misdirection....maxmini's got skills that president Bush would envy.

Oh well. eventually Bush's approval ratings did fall....7 years later."

Does this mean I have 6 years left

And last but not least from our buddy Andrew

t's fascinating to watch the pattern of certain tuners.

1) New product is hyped, claimed to do lots of amazing things.
2) Product is questioned by community.
3) Tuner either supplies irrelevant data or refuses to post any data at all.
4) Product is questioned by community.
5) Tuner states that happy customers will have to supply data.
6) Product is questioned by community.
7) Happy customers test product and it fails to live up to expectations.
8) Product is questioned by community.
9) Tuner claims faulty testing method/setup, or that the benefits are "immeasurable".

I never claimed that the testing was faulty . I am very encouraged by the results with a stock car on a dyno despite the reservations by the testers themselves of their own test procedures.

In summation you all are very caught up in numbers so I will play that game too. What is the most important number to be derived from the test. After having their hands on each product, driven each car with that product nstalled , seen the allmighty numbers themselves , ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the testers chose the AGS. That is a number we can live with.

Randy
m7 Tuning

626 15,922

 

I think the general opinion is that an air cleaner sticking in the breeze, any breeze, is not necessarily getting a ram air effect. aim the intake opening away from the flow, sideways to the flow and the effect is different than if it is amied right at the flow.

now make an air guide that funnels intake air to a closed box containing the intake. that is a ram intake and the orientation of the intake opening is not so relevant.

it looks to me like the AGS has the opening sideways to the incoming breeze, a nice breeze due to the placement of the enlarged opening.
The Alta conducts air to a closed box...oops, it has an opening a the cowl
the Pilo conducts air to aclosed box...and also has an opening.

yet this was spun back at me:
"If you HONESTLY look at the pic posted by Msftoy and think that there is no " ram air effect " you are suffering from a worse case of M7 denial than Andy is."

so frankly, I don't see how any of these intakes have a ram air effect.

as far as this remark: "After having their hands on each product, driven each car with that product nstalled , seen the allmighty numbers themselves , ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the testers chose the AGS. That is a number we can live with."

causality is important. As I see it, the AGS was already purchased by the testers, and intentionally tested last since they had decided beforehand to keep it. Not to mention the spin put on two testers as "ONE HUNDRED PERCENT" "both" would have worked.

 

JLM
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him see the big hole in the grill . Perhaps the term which i did not invent for this thread " ram air " is not what we need to use to describe why our system works better under way than sitting in front of a fan. Maby if we go with something basic it will help you see what the rest of the people who have been PMing us for the last few days can easily see. Big hole in front of car. Air filter behind hole . Heat shield around air filter holds as much air as the intake can possibly need and allows the rest to bleed off . It is not being rammed or pressurized neither term appears in any of our advertising. It is however dependent on forward motion of the car more than the other systems . This was my original explanation as to why the AGS will perform better while underway than sitting on a dyno with a Big Home depot fan in front of it.

As for the testers leaving on the AGS. If you think Msftoy would have anything on his car that did not perform the best you are sadly mistaken. He spends more time and effort than anyone I know in dialing in that car with no detail spared. To suggest that he would leave it on because he had already decided and then found out that something was performing better is ludicrous and would only be believed by anyone that had not been on here for more than a few days at most. JS is just starting out on the road to modifying his Mini and I do not know much about him. I appreciate the time and effort he put in and the use of his car in this experiment. If you feel he is only keeping it because he paid for it already then we can test that theory as well. If he or Msftoy would like a full and complete refund they can have it . Now lets see if the 100% changes . Yes I could have used " both " but I know how much you like numbers Have a great holiday and thanks again for the post !

Randy
M7 Tuning
628 16017

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ll_intake4.jpg

 

exactly. good luck.

 

MSFITOY,
Where is your water hose? In the pic of your enlarged intake opening, the radiator hose seems to be nowhere near the filter. In the way I installed the AGS, my radiator hose is almost running parallel to the filter till the curved area up top. Care to share some pics of where you routed it? Thanks!

John

 

m7 is at year 7 for me as a neutral bystander

 

So what does that bring you up to now...6...7 sales? I wonder how Alta is doing

 

I have an Alta intake in my car. My next track MINI will get an AGS. I've driven an AGS car, love it, and not just because of the sound. I think the results posted look good, and I really think Sid and his boys did a great job testing it.

For those that have never driven an AGS car, I suggest you do so. You wont have to wait half a second for a reaction from the throttle. It's pretty sweet.

 

Typical.

 

Edit: Due to my misformation, I retract the "communist" complaint.

John, my water hose is a few inches below the intake hole. It should only be obstructing the filter near the bottom (where the insulation should be wrapped around the hose). Did you trim your hose before inserting the extension?

 

in the thread here.

Matt

 

It’s interesting that you, MSFITOY, view that title with the word communist as some kind of derision. I read it as an adjective of the subject intake test. When I look in the dictionary I can see many meanings, but one stands out as appropriate for this context, “…supporter of…a theory or system of common ownership or property”. I had the idea from the way the test was contrived that the data would be spread around and not privately owned. As a point of reference the Christian religion started out that way (also stated in the dictionary). Perhaps the word communistic would have been less likely to be misinterpreted.

They weren’t my words but that’s how I read it. The printed word can be so flat and without true intent it’s easy to see where all of the malevolence in this thread comes from.

I don’t have a stake in the aftermarket outcomes. I’m a fan of the stock air box and would like to know if the stock air filter used in this test was the original with 2000 miles on it?

 

i wonder how long it will take for this topic to be locked up.

 

Grow up

 

I appreciate the education. Thanks. To your question, the stock filter was original equiment and had the same milage as the Mini.

 

You may as well hope to turn lead to gold, about as much chance of that happening as your other wish.

 

It looks like this thread has finally lost its steam. Thanks to all for the contributions....this has been by far the most entertaining thread we have seen in a while.

:impatient

The range of emotions some of us went through.

 

The ref to a communist dyno test was in recogintion that this rose from the masses.........

I still think it's funny.....

But it's obvious that anything near the AGS has to be treaded with more sensitivity than usual!

Matt

 

What complaint? Where's my apology?

 

Is Homer still holding his breath?

Anyway...here's my depression therapy...I fabbed up a shrould for the heat shield to better capture the rammed in air and fend off more heat from the motor. I'd show you more images from different angles of not only this but our Ram Intake Project scoop but I'm spaced out:smile:

 

GORGEOUS Sid! Good going!

 

I had a dream that a pack of horses brought me a next Gen AGS and I woke up very happy:smile: CooperSS, did you have the same dream?

 

WOW