Drivetrain Ready to dyno AGS
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by joker
and why didnt anybody say anything about this ram air effect when i brought it up is a mystery to me?!?! since its what this system is all about. not just sucking air like all of the rest of the design's out there.......by the way just a question i might add.... if this AGS is not worthy then why has it been said time after time that it will be kept in the cars that currently have them!! i think those people know that its a kool design that will prosper down the line w/more & more mods what does everybody else think????? to many people on here are missing the whole picture that this mod is a kick *** kinda intake that has been developed and researched far more in depth than most think.....or care to think for that matter
The relevant question is does the AGS scoop/heat shield actually provide sufficient positive pressure (at the throttle body) so as to take advantage of the AGS' tube & ultimately make a difference in power? It certainly is possible, but hasn't been demonstrated - at all.
An issue that troubles me with the above scenario is the rather small opening, which funnels air into the substantially larger under hood area. ...Sure the car is moving... but what happens when air enters under the hood?
Questions:
a) Does the air entering the stock intake location travel in a relatively uniform column directly into the scoop/heat shield & pressurize the filter/ & T/B? AND wouldn't this be a concern/problem if it were VERY wet outside?
OR
b) Does pressure drop the moment it enters under the bonnet?
OR
c) Does the scoop/heat-shield create a turbulence which actually slows air intake under the bonnet altogether?
Again, no one can say for certain.
Whether you like the AGS or not you have to accept that there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding it's purported function.
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Originally Posted by minimc
No one's doubting the benefit of ram air effect. I don't think anyone's even disputing whether or not the AGS will benefit from air directed to it as the MINI moves forward at speed.
In order to implement ram air, the carburetors or throttle-bodies of our engine must seal to an airbox whose volume is large enough that the intake cycle of one cylinder cannot pull its internal pressure down significantly. Box volume is typically 10-20 times the engine's displacement. Then the forward-facing air intake is connected to the box. When this assembly is tested on the dyno — even without an external fan to simulate the high-speed rush of air past the intake — it is discovered that the engine's torque curve is greatly altered, with new peaks and hollows.
Why? The answer is airbox resonance. If you hold the mouth of an empty bottle near your open mouth as you loudly hum scales, you find that at certain “hum frequencies” the bottle reinforces your humming, which becomes louder. What is happening is that the springy compressibility of the air in the bottle is bouncing the slug of air in the bottle's neck back and forth at a particular frequency — higher if the bottle is small, lower if it is larger. Your humming is driving a rapid plus-and-minus variation of the air pressure inside the bottle.
The same thing happens inside a resonant airbox. The volume of air in the box is the “spring” in this kind of oscillator. The mass of air in the box's intake pipe is what oscillates. The “humming” that drives the oscillation is the rapid succession of suction pulses at the carb or throttle-body intakes. If the volume of the airbox and the dimensions of the intake pipe(s) are correctly chosen, the airbox can be made to resonate very strongly, in step with the engine's suction pulses. The result, when this is done correctly, is that the engine takes air from the box only during the high-pressure part of its cycle, while the box refills from atmosphere through its intake between engine suction pulses. This produces a useful gain in torque.
Using this idea, motorcycle engines have been able to realize torque increases, in particular speed ranges, of 10-15 percent. In race engines, it is usual to tune the airbox to resonate at peak-power rpm to increase top speed. For production engines, it is often more useful to tune the box resonance to fill in what would otherwise be a flat-spot in the torque curve, resulting in smoother power and improved acceleration.
Early resonant airbox systems used long intake pipes that terminated in forward-facing intakes. More recent designs do not connect the ram-air pipe to the box at all, but terminate it near the airbox entry. The actual entry pipe is a short piece of tubing with bellmouths on both ends. This is done because (a) the potential gain from actual ram air is too small to worry about, and (b) it's easier to tune the airbox with a short tube.
Where vehicle speeds are very high, gains from ram air are significant. This was discovered by Rolls-Royce in the late 1920s as the company developed its R Schneider Trophy air racing engine. At speeds above 300 mph, it was noticed that the R’s fuel mixture leaned out enough to cause backfiring. When the mixture was corrected for ram-air pressure gain, the engineers realized they had a "free" source of power. At 350 mph the gain from ram air is almost 15 percent. Similar mixture correction is necessary when ram air is used on drag-race and Bonneville cars and bikes.
Intuition suggests that a forward-facing intake made in the form of a funnel, large end foremost, should somehow multiply the pressure of the air, resulting in a much larger pressure gain at the small end. Sadly, intuition is wrong. In order to convert velocity energy into pressure, the air has to be slowed down, and this requires a duct that widens rather than narrows. Next time you fly on a commercial airliner, note that its engine intakes widen as the airflow approaches the compressor face. Such widening passages are called diffusers, and they are universally used in the conversion of velocity into pressure.
Language often plays tricks on us — especially when language is used by product advertisers. "Ram air" sounds much more appealing than "resonant airbox." Nevertheless, it is airbox resonance that actually generates a significant power gain. At regular driving speeds, ram air is just words.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by ALTA2
ingsoc,
Actually comparing the 40-104MPH
pilo (2runs) gets there in 13.82 and 13.85sec.
Alta, (1 run)13.45 sec
AGS (3 runs)13.55, 14.17, 14.56
Either way the time doesn't matter that much. If you have a car that does 200WHP and the run takes 13 sec. Then this other car does 150 and it takes 13sec, the dyno calculated more WHP on the first car, it will be faster, even though they took the same time. Its all in how they have the dyno setup. They could have the dyno programed to run the same time no matter what WHP its putting down. But the computer knows how much load it is applying to calculate HP. I am not familiar with dynojets and how they can be setup, but nearly all others can do this.
And with the hood closed, and with 40-104MPH winds our intake does get pressurized air from the window scoop and the front scoop. So with the hood open the only benifit is just fresh air, not pressurized air. I think with the hood open, the large fan in front of the car all the intakes get similar air to how they will on the road. If anything ours would get even more air, the pilo would get a little more than with the hood open, and the AGS will get basically the same air coming through the front.
FILTERS
The surface Area of the filter thing is sort of true, and i am keeping my day job. Yes you can take the pleated filters and stretch them out and get more surface area. And if you are comparing like filters (say 5"round 8" long) In the end the Area surrounding the filter is the area that the filter can suck air from.
You can't say: When a pleated filter is streched out it takes up X amount area, and foam only takes up half of X, that the pleated filter will flow twice as much. They both take up that 5"x8" area and they both have the same surrounding area to draw from.
This is the arugment that pleated filter guys always say. In fact when we looked into pleated filters and explored changing it, the pleated filter guys told us this a said how much better they are than foam because of the surface area. This is not true, both a foam and pleated filter (same size) will flow the same amount of air. We have proven this many times on the dyno with swaping a K&N with our foam (same size) and got no difference. Needless to say, if this was their strong point, we will stick with our lovely foam.
The only thing the pleats get you is more surface area to hold dirt. That is why all OEM filters are pleated like they are. Longer service life. With Foam the multiple cells act like the pleats and hold the dirt.
SIZE DOES MATTER.
Actually comparing the 40-104MPH
pilo (2runs) gets there in 13.82 and 13.85sec.
Alta, (1 run)13.45 sec
AGS (3 runs)13.55, 14.17, 14.56
Either way the time doesn't matter that much. If you have a car that does 200WHP and the run takes 13 sec. Then this other car does 150 and it takes 13sec, the dyno calculated more WHP on the first car, it will be faster, even though they took the same time. Its all in how they have the dyno setup. They could have the dyno programed to run the same time no matter what WHP its putting down. But the computer knows how much load it is applying to calculate HP. I am not familiar with dynojets and how they can be setup, but nearly all others can do this.
And with the hood closed, and with 40-104MPH winds our intake does get pressurized air from the window scoop and the front scoop. So with the hood open the only benifit is just fresh air, not pressurized air. I think with the hood open, the large fan in front of the car all the intakes get similar air to how they will on the road. If anything ours would get even more air, the pilo would get a little more than with the hood open, and the AGS will get basically the same air coming through the front.
FILTERS
The surface Area of the filter thing is sort of true, and i am keeping my day job. Yes you can take the pleated filters and stretch them out and get more surface area. And if you are comparing like filters (say 5"round 8" long) In the end the Area surrounding the filter is the area that the filter can suck air from.
You can't say: When a pleated filter is streched out it takes up X amount area, and foam only takes up half of X, that the pleated filter will flow twice as much. They both take up that 5"x8" area and they both have the same surrounding area to draw from.
This is the arugment that pleated filter guys always say. In fact when we looked into pleated filters and explored changing it, the pleated filter guys told us this a said how much better they are than foam because of the surface area. This is not true, both a foam and pleated filter (same size) will flow the same amount of air. We have proven this many times on the dyno with swaping a K&N with our foam (same size) and got no difference. Needless to say, if this was their strong point, we will stick with our lovely foam.
The only thing the pleats get you is more surface area to hold dirt. That is why all OEM filters are pleated like they are. Longer service life. With Foam the multiple cells act like the pleats and hold the dirt.
SIZE DOES MATTER.
Jeff the comment about the day job was not directed at you . You have a fine line of products and I do not make a habit of speaking badly about the personal of our competitors. You do raise a interesting point and i believe unknowingly explain why the pleated filter is far superior than foam.
"The only thing the pleats get you is more surface area to hold dirt. That is why all OEM filters are pleated like they are. Longer service life. With Foam the multiple cells act like the pleats and hold the dirt."
Everyone appears to be interested only in performance not what it is doing to the motors. S&B would love run a test with your filter regarding capacity and efficiency . The will do this in their +$700,000 test facility to ISO 5011 standards and you or your representative may be present during the test. I just got off the phone with them and they are VERY serious , are you?
Randy
M7 Tuning
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Originally Posted by Wenzor
good god, Tuls u are the man, my physics teacher and fluids teacher would be impressed..... and with that...
class dismissed. have a good labor day weeekend ladies and gentlemen.
class dismissed. have a good labor day weeekend ladies and gentlemen.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Originally Posted by maxmini
S&B would love run a test with your filter regarding capacity and efficiency . The will do this in their +$700,000 test facility to ISO 5011 standards and you or your representative may be present during the test. I just got off the phone with them and they are VERY serious , are you?
Randy
M7 Tuning
Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Pressure drop too? BTW, I used to have a day job (which I quit) as a process engineer for one of the world's foremost pleated filter manufacturers. I did this really weird thing, which was to TEST the filters and pressure drop was a very important part of that testing.
Andy you were a engineer? I love trains
I never would have guessed LOL . With a backround in filter work then you certainly should not have offered such a missleading measurment unless you had a reason too. Thanks for clearing that up.Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by Tuls
here's somethign that might clear up the whole ram air issue
In order to implement ram air, the carburetors or throttle-bodies of our engine must seal to an airbox whose volume is large enough that the intake cycle of one cylinder cannot pull its internal pressure down significantly. Box volume is typically 10-20 times the engine's displacement. Then the forward-facing air intake is connected to the box. When this assembly is tested on the dyno — even without an external fan to simulate the high-speed rush of air past the intake — it is discovered that the engine's torque curve is greatly altered, with new peaks and hollows.
Why? The answer is airbox resonance. If you hold the mouth of an empty bottle near your open mouth as you loudly hum scales, you find that at certain “hum frequencies” the bottle reinforces your humming, which becomes louder. What is happening is that the springy compressibility of the air in the bottle is bouncing the slug of air in the bottle's neck back and forth at a particular frequency — higher if the bottle is small, lower if it is larger. Your humming is driving a rapid plus-and-minus variation of the air pressure inside the bottle.
The same thing happens inside a resonant airbox. The volume of air in the box is the “spring” in this kind of oscillator. The mass of air in the box's intake pipe is what oscillates. The “humming” that drives the oscillation is the rapid succession of suction pulses at the carb or throttle-body intakes. If the volume of the airbox and the dimensions of the intake pipe(s) are correctly chosen, the airbox can be made to resonate very strongly, in step with the engine's suction pulses. The result, when this is done correctly, is that the engine takes air from the box only during the high-pressure part of its cycle, while the box refills from atmosphere through its intake between engine suction pulses. This produces a useful gain in torque.
Using this idea, motorcycle engines have been able to realize torque increases, in particular speed ranges, of 10-15 percent. In race engines, it is usual to tune the airbox to resonate at peak-power rpm to increase top speed. For production engines, it is often more useful to tune the box resonance to fill in what would otherwise be a flat-spot in the torque curve, resulting in smoother power and improved acceleration.
Early resonant airbox systems used long intake pipes that terminated in forward-facing intakes. More recent designs do not connect the ram-air pipe to the box at all, but terminate it near the airbox entry. The actual entry pipe is a short piece of tubing with bellmouths on both ends. This is done because (a) the potential gain from actual ram air is too small to worry about, and (b) it's easier to tune the airbox with a short tube.
Where vehicle speeds are very high, gains from ram air are significant. This was discovered by Rolls-Royce in the late 1920s as the company developed its R Schneider Trophy air racing engine. At speeds above 300 mph, it was noticed that the R’s fuel mixture leaned out enough to cause backfiring. When the mixture was corrected for ram-air pressure gain, the engineers realized they had a "free" source of power. At 350 mph the gain from ram air is almost 15 percent. Similar mixture correction is necessary when ram air is used on drag-race and Bonneville cars and bikes.
Intuition suggests that a forward-facing intake made in the form of a funnel, large end foremost, should somehow multiply the pressure of the air, resulting in a much larger pressure gain at the small end. Sadly, intuition is wrong. In order to convert velocity energy into pressure, the air has to be slowed down, and this requires a duct that widens rather than narrows. Next time you fly on a commercial airliner, note that its engine intakes widen as the airflow approaches the compressor face. Such widening passages are called diffusers, and they are universally used in the conversion of velocity into pressure.
Language often plays tricks on us — especially when language is used by product advertisers. "Ram air" sounds much more appealing than "resonant airbox." Nevertheless, it is airbox resonance that actually generates a significant power gain. At regular driving speeds, ram air is just words.
In order to implement ram air, the carburetors or throttle-bodies of our engine must seal to an airbox whose volume is large enough that the intake cycle of one cylinder cannot pull its internal pressure down significantly. Box volume is typically 10-20 times the engine's displacement. Then the forward-facing air intake is connected to the box. When this assembly is tested on the dyno — even without an external fan to simulate the high-speed rush of air past the intake — it is discovered that the engine's torque curve is greatly altered, with new peaks and hollows.
Why? The answer is airbox resonance. If you hold the mouth of an empty bottle near your open mouth as you loudly hum scales, you find that at certain “hum frequencies” the bottle reinforces your humming, which becomes louder. What is happening is that the springy compressibility of the air in the bottle is bouncing the slug of air in the bottle's neck back and forth at a particular frequency — higher if the bottle is small, lower if it is larger. Your humming is driving a rapid plus-and-minus variation of the air pressure inside the bottle.
The same thing happens inside a resonant airbox. The volume of air in the box is the “spring” in this kind of oscillator. The mass of air in the box's intake pipe is what oscillates. The “humming” that drives the oscillation is the rapid succession of suction pulses at the carb or throttle-body intakes. If the volume of the airbox and the dimensions of the intake pipe(s) are correctly chosen, the airbox can be made to resonate very strongly, in step with the engine's suction pulses. The result, when this is done correctly, is that the engine takes air from the box only during the high-pressure part of its cycle, while the box refills from atmosphere through its intake between engine suction pulses. This produces a useful gain in torque.
Using this idea, motorcycle engines have been able to realize torque increases, in particular speed ranges, of 10-15 percent. In race engines, it is usual to tune the airbox to resonate at peak-power rpm to increase top speed. For production engines, it is often more useful to tune the box resonance to fill in what would otherwise be a flat-spot in the torque curve, resulting in smoother power and improved acceleration.
Early resonant airbox systems used long intake pipes that terminated in forward-facing intakes. More recent designs do not connect the ram-air pipe to the box at all, but terminate it near the airbox entry. The actual entry pipe is a short piece of tubing with bellmouths on both ends. This is done because (a) the potential gain from actual ram air is too small to worry about, and (b) it's easier to tune the airbox with a short tube.
Where vehicle speeds are very high, gains from ram air are significant. This was discovered by Rolls-Royce in the late 1920s as the company developed its R Schneider Trophy air racing engine. At speeds above 300 mph, it was noticed that the R’s fuel mixture leaned out enough to cause backfiring. When the mixture was corrected for ram-air pressure gain, the engineers realized they had a "free" source of power. At 350 mph the gain from ram air is almost 15 percent. Similar mixture correction is necessary when ram air is used on drag-race and Bonneville cars and bikes.
Intuition suggests that a forward-facing intake made in the form of a funnel, large end foremost, should somehow multiply the pressure of the air, resulting in a much larger pressure gain at the small end. Sadly, intuition is wrong. In order to convert velocity energy into pressure, the air has to be slowed down, and this requires a duct that widens rather than narrows. Next time you fly on a commercial airliner, note that its engine intakes widen as the airflow approaches the compressor face. Such widening passages are called diffusers, and they are universally used in the conversion of velocity into pressure.
Language often plays tricks on us — especially when language is used by product advertisers. "Ram air" sounds much more appealing than "resonant airbox." Nevertheless, it is airbox resonance that actually generates a significant power gain. At regular driving speeds, ram air is just words.
Tul's great info and a interesting read. The term Ram air regadring our AGS was more of a generic term and to be honest do not know where it originated from . I really wish you could see one of these installed and perhaps help with the discussion more as you have a real good base of knowledge . Maby you can give us a better description than "ram air". The way ours works is the larger snoot opening is forcing air into the filter air which is contained within the heat sheild. The back of the sheild is open to a degree to give unused air a way out so as to not cause a bottleneck. The air path is not sealed so I do not think the term "Ram Air " truly applies. Your thoughts ?
Randy
M7 tuning
BTW 581 posts and 14,786 views on this thread alone you guys are the best
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Which misleading measurement? That your filter's area is considerably smaller than others? Do you have some data to suggest that despite being MUCH, MUCH smaller it somehow flows better? I'd love to see that.
Originally Posted by maxmini
Andy you were a engineer? I love trains I never would have guessed LOL . With a backround in filter work then you certainly should not have offered such a missleading measurment unless you had a reason too. Thanks for clearing that up.
Randy
M7 Tuning
I never would have guessed LOL . With a backround in filter work then you certainly should not have offered such a missleading measurment unless you had a reason too. Thanks for clearing that up.Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Did you tell them that the 1.6L engine is supercharged?
Originally Posted by maxmini
One last thought regarding the size of the filter . We did not find this filter at Pep Boys.The company that created and makes them for us is S & B one of the larger filter manufactureres in the world.Everything they do is to ISO 5011 std and sold all over the world. They make filters for Madness, Rogue , K & N etc. They did not get that big by making filters that were not up to the job. We told them the space available, they calculated the needs of a 1.6 motor and max RPM added a saftey factor and came up with the square inches needed to work. Then they EXCEEDED this figure and came up with the design for the AGS. Please, the filter is MORE than adaquate. Forget about it, drop it, move along there is nothing to see here
BTW I mentioned to them how some have tried to compare the capacity of the filter by measuring the dimmensions of the filters in question. The got a good chuckle out of that and suggested that they keep their day job. Individual rib design, thickness , depth and frequency are what determine the capacity of a filter not the size of the element itself.
Randy
M7 Tuning
BTW I mentioned to them how some have tried to compare the capacity of the filter by measuring the dimmensions of the filters in question. The got a good chuckle out of that and suggested that they keep their day job. Individual rib design, thickness , depth and frequency are what determine the capacity of a filter not the size of the element itself.
Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Which misleading measurement? That your filter's area is considerably smaller than others? Do you have some data to suggest that despite being MUCH, MUCH smaller it somehow flows better? I'd love to see that.
Andy how much is too much and how much is too small ? As I mentioned earlier ours flows more than enough for a 1.6 motor. The misleading measurment was the outside diameter of the filters in question. Its a nice way to see if a filter will fit but not really a good comaprison of how it will work. Remember this post ?
Randy
M7 Tuning
585 14,768
Not really. The HAI uses a filter with a very large surface area whereas the AGS uses a filter with a much, much smaller surface area. The rest of the AGS may very well flow better (from the data posted in the past it looks like the supercharger inlet tube portion of the AGS flows better than stock), but the small filter may be the limiting factor.
HAI:
4x6.25x7 = filter area of 119 in^2
AGS filter:
11x5x3.25 = filter area of 90 in^2
Since each filter has rounded edges, I calculated areas based on the width of the filter being the diameter of the rounded edge. Looks like filter area of the HAI filter is about 32% larger than that of the AGS filter. Both are pleated, oiled-cotton filters between wire mesh
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Yep, your filter area is much, much smaller.
It's true that the number of pleats, size of the pleats, construction material, etc. can all affect flow rates. That's why I posted the comparison. Does yours differ in construction from the K&N enough to overcome that massive mismatch in size? What is the airflow and pressure drop through your entire intake from filter to the supercharger inlet? If you have that information and information for its competitors, wouldn't it be a good idea to release it?
It's true that the number of pleats, size of the pleats, construction material, etc. can all affect flow rates. That's why I posted the comparison. Does yours differ in construction from the K&N enough to overcome that massive mismatch in size? What is the airflow and pressure drop through your entire intake from filter to the supercharger inlet? If you have that information and information for its competitors, wouldn't it be a good idea to release it?
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
BTW, my logging indicates that a normally modded MCS (pulley, intake, exhaust) flows a peak of about 200 g/s or about 330 CFM. That's a HUGE amount more than a typical N/A 1.6L engine. Figure a stock MC runs about 90 g/s or about 150 CFM.
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Did you tell them that the 1.6L engine is supercharged?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Yep, your filter area is much, much smaller.
It's true that the number of pleats, size of the pleats, construction material, etc. can all affect flow rates. That's why I posted the comparison. Does yours differ in construction from the K&N enough to overcome that massive mismatch in size? What is the airflow and pressure drop through your entire intake from filter to the supercharger inlet? If you have that information and information for its competitors, wouldn't it be a good idea to release it?
It's true that the number of pleats, size of the pleats, construction material, etc. can all affect flow rates. That's why I posted the comparison. Does yours differ in construction from the K&N enough to overcome that massive mismatch in size? What is the airflow and pressure drop through your entire intake from filter to the supercharger inlet? If you have that information and information for its competitors, wouldn't it be a good idea to release it?
Andy if our filter was unable to handle what a 1.6 supercharged engine then there would be an issue. The only missmatch is between the size of the filters but does that truly have a bearing on the important issue ? The fact that your filter is larger and allows more hot air into the intake doesnt really impress me when our intake which is sheilded from much of the hot air and allows MORE than enough air for a 1.6 liter motor to function at full capacity. The only important " miss match " would be if the filter did not meet or exceed the requirments of the engine in question .And as S&B designed it that is not an option. Keep the ball rolling this makes for 587 posts and 14,903 views. Im hoping for 15,000 by dinner time
Randy
m7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Where is your data to support these statements?
Originally Posted by maxmini
our intake which is sheilded from much of the hot air and allows MORE than enough air for a 1.6 liter motor to function at full capacity. The only important " miss match " would be if the filter did not meet or exceed the requirments of the engine in question .And as S&B designed it that is not an option.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 9
From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
BTW, my logging indicates that a normally modded MCS (pulley, intake, exhaust) flows a peak of about 200 g/s or about 330 CFM. That's a HUGE amount more than a typical N/A 1.6L engine. Figure a stock MC runs about 90 g/s or about 150 CFM.
Andy that is great news and makes us look even more forward to a test on a modded car
BTW yes they do know it is a super charged motor as I gave two of the techs some E ticket rides in my car during the creation of the filter .Have a good one,
Randy
M7 Tuning
589 14903
6th Gear
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From: NY NY
here is an answer to where "it" came from:
question asked by maxmini: "The term Ram air regadring our AGS was more of a generic term and to be honest do not know where it originated from "
earlier from Maxmini: "The hood open only helps give the other types a bit of an advantage as others brought out, thanks for mentioning it . Ours functions with the ram like effect of the air being forced thru the front of the grill.'
question asked by maxmini: "The term Ram air regadring our AGS was more of a generic term and to be honest do not know where it originated from "
earlier from Maxmini: "The hood open only helps give the other types a bit of an advantage as others brought out, thanks for mentioning it . Ours functions with the ram like effect of the air being forced thru the front of the grill.'
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
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From: L.A ca
Originally Posted by jlm
here is an answer to where "it" came from:
question asked by maxmini: "The term Ram air regadring our AGS was more of a generic term and to be honest do not know where it originated from "
earlier from Maxmini: "The hood open only helps give the other types a bit of an advantage as others brought out, thanks for mentioning it . Ours functions with the ram like effect of the air being forced thru the front of the grill.'
question asked by maxmini: "The term Ram air regadring our AGS was more of a generic term and to be honest do not know where it originated from "
earlier from Maxmini: "The hood open only helps give the other types a bit of an advantage as others brought out, thanks for mentioning it . Ours functions with the ram like effect of the air being forced thru the front of the grill.'
"I still am not convinced the AGS has any more "ram air effect" than the others, with or without the hood open, with or without the enlarged opening at the radiator."
Randy
M7 Tuning
593 14966
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: NY NY
actually, Maxmini used the term "ram air effect" in post 505;
jlm first commented about it in post 536
then Maxmini c made the "I don't see..." comment in post 542
etc.
since 505 precedes 536, this by Maxmini is slightly off-base:
"If you had posted the entire quote you would see that I was using the term only after you used the term " ram air effect ""
jlm first commented about it in post 536
then Maxmini c made the "I don't see..." comment in post 542
etc.
since 505 precedes 536, this by Maxmini is slightly off-base:
"If you had posted the entire quote you would see that I was using the term only after you used the term " ram air effect "
"