I agree completely about the sentiment. We should all take some time to make sure we make a difference. I'm already helping, with my medical class, to donate and collect things for victims. It is not on topic and certainly not up to argument, but for the record. I think that's why our collective benevolence is not more apparent. Thanks for giving us all a pause KiLO!

 

I knew you'd understand ingsoc.

You are all such intelligent people, that's all. Most of the time I don't understand what you are even talking about, lol. It'd be a cool thing to see the focus shift a little :smile:

And that's awesome that you are helping out with medical stuff, that's much needed.

 

I know, but the question remains.

 

Awwww, can't we play in the toy department just a little bit longer??? Please? Then we'll go back to work! Honest! Pretty please???

 

American Red Cross

I gave 5 days ago, before the hurricane hit.
Double dog dare you

 

I made a donation through Verizon (a friend works there) to the Red Cross. They provide 3:1 matching! Leverage!

 

okay i said who cares about the whole time to speed thing jokingly but honestly... i can make a mini take 10 minutes to go from 30-80mph or whatever on a dyno... their are multiple ways you can do this... one is the very obvious... don't give full throttle... or two adjust the LOAD on the dyno! Some of you may not realzie that on some dynos you can actually very the load! THIS MAKES A HUGE DIFFERNCE!


Also... another reason why i could really care less about the whole speed time thing is... NO ONE EVER uses this for comparisons. This is the first car i have heard people measuring speed vs time on a dyno... seriously... many of you are new to the tuning world some of you are not... how many 1100 hp cars are measuring speed vs. time... none... and seriously sometimes i think this community begins to sweat some of the small stuff... a couple of a hundreths of a second here... 2 hp their... real world driving you aren't going to notice it... and their are many factors that can add a couple tenths or hp's a couple here and their is insignificant also 2hp on a dyno can be made up simply by allowing the car to cool down longer... or putting a couple bags of ice on the intercooler and intake manifold... actually doing this can get you about 8hp on a dyno if not more... its amazing... if you want to see something really funny on a dyno take a leaf blower and blow that into the intake (remove the filter) it is so gosh darn red neck but it will add like 10-15 hp... its so stupid, and of course not recomended, its just stupid funny...
i am not trying to discredit this test or anything im just saying that sometimes i think some of us get wrapped up in the really small things and miss out on big picture... having fun... but i reallly am glad someone finally dynoed that damn ags! I can't tell you how excited i was to see that... and just like i originally suspected it didn't make nearly as much horsepower as anticipated... you can usually tell that that is going to happen when manufactures post only flow numbers and not dyno sheets... thats because while it may flow more it didn't make any real power and since that company has already spent alot of money in r&d especially with a plastic mold they have to try to salvage their product by marketing flow numbers... i am always very weary of any product that just states flow numbers and doesn't ever make any horsepower claims... the silence scares me...

im putting my flame suit on....

 

0-60 or 1/4 miles... It does matter. It's just a consiquence of how the machine makes it's measurement..... It's more a reflection of area under the curve than peak numbers, but it does have it's value. And I'm sure that the dragsters care about time to speed.......

Also, shaving a bit here or there... In the Cart race up in Montreal last weekend, a racing team changed rear view mirror mounts to reduce drag by four lbs at speed (~200mph). The talk was all the teams would copy it within one to two months, so the value is certainly in the eye of the beholder!

So what it comes down to is these differences don't matter to you, but to others they do, and that's OK.

Matt

 

okay comparing 0-60 times and 1/4 times and dragsters and things like that... their are so many more variables to consider... traction... shifting technique... gearing for the tranny... final drive gearing... tire size affecting gearing... tire compound... tire pressure... wheel weight and size... suspension set up for bound/rebound, using wheelie bars... burn out... no burn out... launch technique... were you actually stage in the lights... use of wheelie bars... things like that... differnt weight drivers... track conditions... blah blah blah blah blah... thats why we use a dyno to compare products and to measure hp... not 1/4 times or 0-60 times... we use 1/4 times and things like that to compare cars, drivers ability and "set up ability" because the car doesn't win the race by itself... the driver doesn't win the race by itself... and the set up will mean nothing if the driver sucks... but all of that is obvious

yes i agree as a person who is heavily involved in motorsports yes the smallest thing can make a big difference... but i am talking about the oposite... the big thing making very little of a differnce... in reference 2 hundreths of a second or 2hp... for street cars this is irrelevant... if we were talking about competion built cars yes... 2 hundreths of a second over 100 laps is the diffence between winning and losing... im just saying for 99% of the people out their... don't sweat the small stuff... to me dealing with a vendor who backs their product or you like the way the product looks better or the vendor treats you very well or is honest or is more reliable is much more important that 2 hp or a couple hundreths of a second... thats all...

no argument over small changes making big results... its all about efficencys and the details... again i am just saying for 99% of the people out their... their maybe more important aspects to look at...

also... if you read my earlier post... I ASKED FOR THE DYNO SHEETS SO I COULD SEE THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE WITH MY OWN EYES ... in my EARLIER POST I STATED THAT THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PEAK NUMBERS... SO I BELIEVE WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AS FAR AS IMPORTANCE OF AREA UNDER THE CURVE AND USABLE POWER
WHOOPS caps are on... don't take that the wrong way... just to lazy to rewrite all of that

 

Dare me? I'm actually leaving to go help out myself, tomorrow.

 

It took a while to crunch the numbers into a single excel sheet, and if you want what I've got, I'll send it along...... It doesn't have all the runs in it yet, just the ones that were in the graphs I displayed.....

Matt

 

Here is another outside the box way to make whp...lol

http://videos.streetfire.net/iPlayer...D-A1AD23CA9564

for less than $100...ROFLMAO !!!

 

where are the dyno sheets from the dyno? Why did you have to put them in excel sheet? Please don't think that i am trying to suggest any funny buisness taking place i know the whole reason of this test was to be independent and fair so i am not suspecting that at all...im just curious why we can't just see the graph the dyno spit out... maybe it was discussed earlier in this 20 or 21 page thread and i just missed it... again... not trying to be a *****... just wondering why you had to put so much time and effort putting things into an excel document... but yeah that would be appreciated and thanks for the offer

 

Here's the curves I created from the data that has been posted so far:

 

Somewhere, many posts ago, the ?tester? commented being very busy and would try to get the data out sometime - meanwhile, we have what we have.

Given that this was a privately run activity to try and provide some insight into the reality of claims of some products, we already have enough evidence to make intelligent comparisons. It is only the unintelligent comparisons that are still difficult.

 

fair enough about the dyno sheets... again... i was just curious as to were they were...

 

I don't see where you (along with Kaelaria/Andy) get off demanding so much of anything with your condescending attitudes after we spent so much of our times trying to serve this community with honorable intentions. We DO have full time jobs and families to attend to. Your comments alluding dyno manipulation is simply offensive. If we wanted to sway the results towards AGS, why the hell are we even having this discussion...it wouldn't have even been close!

 

Ok everyone. I think it's time to cool off for a bit. Randy should have his AGS tests out pretty soon and he might be the only one to bring an end to this argument. I'm pretty sure every bit of pertinent discussion on the graphs has been already said. If you have some more good discussion info that was overlooked, then post it; just no more of this pro/anti AGS war. Until the actual hp/torque graphs come out, there's really not much more to discuss.

 

And I think we should have a flame war over it!

Matt

 

 

Was that a stock or tuned leaf blower? Are flow and pressure numbers available? The dyno differences were most impressive ---

 

Other than the N2o and a little porting it was stock.

That was an unbelievable video! They should have just blasted the n20 straight down the throttle body to see what would happen.

 

hmmmnn....N2O...I like the sound of that :smile:

 

Andy, Thanks for the Graph.

Here is what I see, Being that I have my own Intake brand in this testing, I have kept quiet so far.

Is it just me, or do all intakes seem the same from about 3000 RPM to about 6000RPM where things start to seperate.

It seems that at that mark, Alta seems to have a bit more torqu, the AGS seems to fall off, and My intake is about middle. That is what I see. I'm not saying anything other then that. It is what I honestly see for the graph compared. I try to honestly market my products, and from testing I have done, and this test. It seems to be straignt foward the Power Gains Realized.

One test that I would like see, and can provide my intake for this test if any one cares to do so as well, is my Pilo Intake with Alta Tube, Vs. ALta intake with Alta Tube. I think it would be an interesting test.

 

It would be interesting to see how it would have worked out had the intake mod been done. As I mentioned earlier we recommend that the opening thru the radiator surround be opened to maximize the AGS intake capabilities. It was our fault that it is not mentioned in the install instructions but you can bet it will be shortly What a differance five min could have made

Randy
M7 Tuning