I am just about to the point it would make sense to upgrade the injectors. Where is the best place to buy an upgraded injector that will fit with no modifacations?

I would like either the M7's or the JCW's who has the best price, or is there another option for a direct fit injector at a good price?

 

Helix has direct fit injectors that are no revalved. They are 380cc just like the JCW's I believe only a bit cheaper
Mike

 

I have the Helix/Bosch 380 injectors and they work very well. Eric is very easy to deal with and stands behind his products.

 

JCW 380cc, might as well stay "all MINI" and JCW

Price is less than $400 through Classic

 

Your best bet would be to pay a little more and buy one of the JCW 210 upgrade kits that includes the JCW 380cc injectors and the JCW CIA and then just sell the JCW CAI. You'll pay a bit more for the kit, but you'll make it back when you sell the JCW CAI. You should be able to get $300 for it quite easily and that will bring the cost of the injectors way down (less than $200).

 

I spoke to Eric at Helix yesterday. They are selling 380cc, non-revalved injectors made by Bosch for $340 a set. I'm probably going that route.

 

I ordered a set from helix.

 

At what HP rating is it necessary to upgrade the stock injectors on our MINI's? Thanks!!

 

I'd like to here this also. At what point do you say "it's time for larger injectors"? And also, just what is the end result of such a mod?

 

It's interesting that JCW (and others) have gone with larger fuel injectors for their pulley kits. Obviously the car must have a greater fuel requirement when having a pulley (and ECU Flash) installed. However, look what Dinan has to say about this in their kit (http://www.dinanbmw.com/):

How come they went to all of the trouble of replacing the fuel pressure regulators but left the stock sized injectors in place??? Also, if what they are saying is true, how come JCW (and the others) don't include new fuel pressure regulators with their kits???

I installed a 19% pulley on my 05 MCS and it made the car run like complete garbage until I installed the larger JCW injectors and GIAC ECU flash. Now it runs like a dream (except for a slight pinging problem that I can't seem to get rid of no matter what I try).

 

Anybody else have this problem (pinging with the above setup)?

 

Pinging = detonation. Detonation = ventilated block in some full throttle conditions. Best to get that detonation addressed pronto for peace of mind and longevity of your engine.

 

I forgot to ask, what kind of spark plugs are you using?

 

i would say anything above 190whp definitely needs larger injectors; that is to say, at WOT, more fuel in the cylinder than the stock injectors can supply. Either larger injectors (and to do it right, you might need a way to throttle them back when not at WOT) or more fuel pressure (stock is supposed to be 51psi, although I haven't measured it myself.)

 

Question...on my 05 I am running 15% pulley w/JCW intake/JCW ECU Flash and Iridium Plugs. Would I see a difference w/injectors? i.e performance and MPG? I have been watching my MPG and I manage around 21.5. Thoughts?

 

I'd love to if someone could just figure it out. Everyone I've spoken with who has the same setup as mine (i.e. 19%/GIAC/JCW Injectors) claim that they don't have a pinging problem like I do. However, they're all back East where 93 octane gas is readily available at the pump. I'm over in So Cal and the best gas we have is 91 octane at the pump. Also, my car is an 05 (running v40.x ECU software) and so maybe that has something to do with it??? I'd love to get the pinging fixed if I could. Other than the slight ping it has at WOT, the car runs terrific!

Between the LSD and the added power from the pulley, etc. the car is almost too fast. It's scary fast! Those guys running above 240 HP must be nuts as they're driving suicide mobiles now instead of MINIs.

 

I'm currently running the Denso IK22s. They seem to work best at reducing the pinging (I've tried the stock plugs and the colder JCW plugs as well). I've also tried switching brands of gas and the car seems to run best with 76's 91 octane in it. I've spoken with Eric over at Helix (and Brian at Euro Styles East) about the pinging problem and he claims that the GIAC ECU flash was setup on a MCS using stock plugs and California 91 octane gas (over in Irvine at the GIAC headquarters). So... He doesn't know why I'm getting the pinging either???

Also... Note that I installed the 19% pulley first and ran it with the stock ECU software, plugs, etc. and it started pinging (and running like crap) right from the get go (there wasn't any pinging with the stock pulley on the car BTW). The GIAC and larger JCW injectors were installed about 100 miles later and while they really improved the way that the car ran BIG TIME (i.e. throttle response, smoothness, low end power, etc.), they didn't resolve the pinging problem either.

Strange...

BTW, I'd also be really interested in knowing if there are any other 01/05 built (or later) 05 MCS's running around So Cal with the same setup as I have that aren't having a pinging problem at WOT using pump gas.

 

if you are getting detonation you really need to get it under control especially if you can actually hear the detonation! The pistons in th emini are not good for detonation !

If it were me I would drop down to a 17% pully and see if that stops the detonation, if left alone too long you will be buying pistons soon.

 

I hear ya man. It worries me too. The pinging isn't bad as the computer seems to catch it and fix the problem right away, but you can definitely hear it when you first jump on the throttle.

Does anyone know of a good tuner in the So Cal area that would be willing to take a look at the car for me (for all I know it's not even a ping but something else instead )? I wonder if the folks over at GIAC would take a look at it since it's running their software? I'm told that they are based in Irvine and that's right down the street from me.

I guess that I could drop it down to a 17%, but then I'd have to pull the software and the larger injectors as well. I really hate to go backwards on the performance scale, but if that's what it takes then so be it. Tis a shame really as the car is running great (and really strong too). It's never thrown a single fault code like I hear a lot of the other cars doing when running 19% pulleys.

 

I would call giac and see, From what I understand they actually do the chip tuning in Irvine anyway. From a company standpoint they have more to gain by tuning your car than anyone.

Give em a call and see what they say.

 

find a place to get some race gas, (high octane) and see if you still have the pinging. that will help you determine if is really is detonating.
I have heard of virtually no minis wuth this problem, many in your state of tune. there can be loose parts in your Cat or muffler that can make "pinging" like noises, for example. the mini also has a knock detector, whic will detect knock and retard the spark; you want to make sure that is functioning. IO believe you can monitor it with an OBDII scannining program

 

You may not want to do this but Lee Hurley of Hesco in Birmingham has an additive to raise the octane. They use it for racing obviously. Or, I know you can get race gas out there so you might consider mixing up a 93-94 octane "milkshake" for your car and see what happens. If the problem goes away the GIAC needs some tweeking for the gas out there in SoCal

 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies. I understand what you are saying about trying to run some higher octane gas in the car and see if that corrects the problem or not. That's fine for me to do on a "test" basis (i.e. just to determine if it's actually pinging that I'm hearing - although I'm 99% certain that it is as I used to have a couple of old 16v VW GTIs that used to ping and this is the exact same sound - and just like on the GTI's, I can tell when the MINI's knock sensor catches the pinging and begins retarding the timing). However, since this is a daily driver for me, I don't want to be forced into having to use high octane gas in it on a permanent basis. At $4-$5 per gallon, it's just not worth it. I'd rather just put the car back into it's stock form and be done with it.

I can tell you that I'm a bit disappointed with the car at this point. The reason I say this is because my first 05 MCS had a JCW kit on it and that car ran great (other than it turning out to be a lemon that is, but that had nothing to do with the JCW kit). For the replacement 05 MCS, I decided to take the aftermarket route instead in order to save some money and hopefully squeeze some more performance out of the car. My wife told me not to do it as I've been down this same "aftermarket" road at least a dozen times before and the result is always the same for me (i.e. not good ).

I always end up getting stuck with a car that runs like total crap. Don't get me wrong as I'm really happy with the car and my mods so far (if only I could get rid of the knocking that is), but I'm really starting to kick myself for not just putting the JCW kit on the new car as well. No matter what folks say about the aftermarket parts, they just can't compete with the JCW stuff in my eyes (due to all of these unforeseen problems and hassles). Yeah, I may get a car that's faster and cost me less money to build, but what good is it if it continuously runs like garbage and I always have to put 100 octane fuel in it just to drive it??? Oy! This thing is really starting to drive me nuts.

Anyway.... I've received a really nice message from Hubie (from SPI) and he's stepped up to the plate and has offered to help me resolve the pinging problem I'm having with my car. What a great guy he is and I just can't believe how nice he is to offer to help out a complete stranger who's having a problem with his MINI. How cool is that! So... I'm going to try running some higher octane gas in the car to see what happens and then I'll spend some time with Hubie on the dyno and see what can be done to fix my pinging problem.

Just a word of caution to those of you out there with an 05 MCS living in California and planning on modding your car. I'd hold off installing a 19% pulley and GIAC flash until these types of problems can be worked out. Let my mistakes be a lesson for you to learn from.

 

you're bolting on tons of stuff, and not doing the one thing that will really light it off! Dyno tune! Also, since others have your set up (mine's similar, but different, running a MTH tune for 91 etc.) with no problem, and I have CA gas, you may actually have someting wrong with your car.

Cars now are run by computer. There are a few basic tools you need, like a code scanner, and it's good to have a data logger.

Optimal performance is NEVER bolt on. The best investment you can do, if computer tuning isn't someting you want to learn to do, is to find a local tuner that can work with your system. maybe even change systems to get one that someone with a good local rep can support.

As mentioned before, the knock sensor can be monitored to know if it's detecting detonation. You could look at timing as well (at the same time) to see if it in fact retarding.

O2 output would let you know something about the mixture as well.

Anyway, going far down the mod path without either the tools, or a trusted tuner, or preferably both will inevitibly lead to missing power at best and sever dissapointment at worst.

I was where you're at with my Mustang, but just stepped into the mess, found so semi-local guys for tuning help, and am pretty happy now. The mini is nothing compared to a custom built restomod!

Good luck, and cheer up! All the parts are in place for a really fun ride. And at a savings....

 

Hi Dr Obnxs,

All good points you've mentioned and they're well received. Thanks!

Now that Hubie has so generously offered to help me out, I'm hoping that my pinging problem will be resolved quickly and easily (and on the dyno too ). You're correct in that I probably was expecting too much from just a bunch of bolt-on parts. However, please don't get me wrong as the car really does run great with just those bolt-on parts. It's very smooth and super fast (I really can't see it getting much faster - or really wanting it to be much faster for a daily driver anyway) and so I'm very happy with it as it is.

The only problem is the slight amount of pinging I'm getting. It's not super bad and my friends who ride in the car (as well as my wife) say that they can't even hear it (which makes me think that most folks with my same setup probably don't even notice it even though it is indeed happening to them as well). My ears seem really well tuned for the pinging sound as I can pick it up right away. Therefore, I'm really just after someone in the "know" to take a drive in my car and let me know what they think (and Hubie will do just fine for that ). Maybe I'm just being overly concerned/paranoid is all. Who knows...

BTW, I just took the car out for another good drive and the pinging really seams to be temperature dependant. It's a cool (nearly raining) day here in So Cal today and the car is running very strong (Man! It's an absolute hoot to drive ). I waited for the car to come up to temp and then I tried flooring it in 5th when I normally would have been in 2nd (forced load) and the car didn't ping at all. However, if I take off in first (moderately) and then floor it as soon as I enter 2nd I can hear the ping. The computer quickly retards the timing and the ping goes away and I don't hear it any more as I move through the rest of the gears at WOT.

It's just the initial WOT response where the pinging occurs and it's definitely affected by temperature. On really hot days, it's much more apparent than on cool days like today. Based on the oil temp gauge in my car (which reads from the oil drain plug), the car runs right around 100 to 108 degrees Centigrade most of the time (which is 212 to 226 Fahrenheit). I'm now wondering if a cooler running 180 degree thermostat would help along with an even colder set of plugs (such as IK24's)?

Anyway, thanks again for your well thought out comments.