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Tuning a '06 factory JCW (E85, injectors, cams...)

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Tuning a '06 factory JCW (E85, injectors, cams...)

  #1  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:46 AM
SuN13300
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Tuning a '06 factory JCW (E85, injectors, cams...)

Hi everyone,

I open this thread because I would like to share my experience and have feedback on the mods I'm actually making on my '06 Factory JCW 210.
I will do everything myself, hardware and software mods. It's a street car so I won't go crazy on the modifications

I have two objectives :
* Full E85 conversion => it is a lot cheaper than gasoline and will allow a little more performance
* A little more power => 230 BHP would be nice

Harware mods :
* Bosch 550cc injectors (will receive them soon)
* Performance street cam => any recommendations?
* AFR gauge => any recommendations?

Software mods :
* More pops and bangs (for fun only) => Done, it's very funny :D
* Injectors scaling => working on it, can't find dead times for the Bosch 550cc on the internet, trying to figure out a solution to get them right...
* Fuel map rework => I will do a full MAP with 98 octane, and a second one with E85.
* Airpath rework => will do that once the camshaft is installed

Questions :
*
Does anyone knows if the stock fuel pump will be able to maintain 3 bar with the 550cc injectors at high duty cycle? Any recommandation for an affordable higher flow pump?
* Bosch 550cc dead times (latency). I found various different timings on the internet. Does anyone have a reliable source?
* Cheap header?

I will do these mods step by step. My main concern was to be able to tune the stock ECU and I figured out a solution (with a little help) so this is not a problem anymore. I did a first tune to add pops and bangs, successfully flashed it and it works, so I know that I can go on with the mods whithout having to pay for a remap which is nice.
Next step is to install the injectors and an AFR gauge, and have make a base map with 98 octane.
Once everything runs fine I will fill the tanks with E85, flash a base map and get the fueling right. Then I will probably add a little more ignition timing.

I'm here to share, don't hesitate if you have questions!

To be continued

 
  #2  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:24 PM
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What software are you using to make changes in the fuel/timing maps? I'm assuming you have already done a pulley upgrade, and an exhaust? Will the 550cc injectors flow enough for running e85? I thought I saw another thread a while ago where they were running 600+cc injectors when they were switching over to e85.
 
  #3  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
Hi everyone,

I open this thread because I would like to share my experience and have feedback on the mods I'm actually making on my '06 Factory JCW 210.
I will do everything myself, hardware and software mods. It's a street car so I won't go crazy on the modifications

I have two objectives :
* Full E85 conversion => it is a lot cheaper than gasoline and will allow a little more performance
* A little more power => 230 BHP would be nice

Harware mods :
* Bosch 550cc injectors (will receive them soon)
* Performance street cam => any recommendations?
* AFR gauge => any recommendations?

Software mods :
* More pops and bangs (for fun only) => Done, it's very funny :D
* Injectors scaling => working on it, can't find dead times for the Bosch 550cc on the internet, trying to figure out a solution to get them right...
* Fuel map rework => I will do a full MAP with 98 octane, and a second one with E85.
* Airpath rework => will do that once the camshaft is installed

Questions :
*
Does anyone knows if the stock fuel pump will be able to maintain 3 bar with the 550cc injectors at high duty cycle? Any recommandation for an affordable higher flow pump?
* Bosch 550cc dead times (latency). I found various different timings on the internet. Does anyone have a reliable source?
* Cheap header?

I will do these mods step by step. My main concern was to be able to tune the stock ECU and I figured out a solution (with a little help) so this is not a problem anymore. I did a first tune to add pops and bangs, successfully flashed it and it works, so I know that I can go on with the mods whithout having to pay for a remap which is nice.
Next step is to install the injectors and an AFR gauge, and have make a base map with 98 octane.
Once everything runs fine I will fill the tanks with E85, flash a base map and get the fueling right. Then I will probably add a little more ignition timing.

I'm here to share, don't hesitate if you have questions!

To be continued

You'll find some of the info you're looking for in this thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...e-questio.html

As far as AFR gauges/kits, anything that provides logging software will work, but if you look into the ByteTronik tuning as mentioned in the other thread it will have to be the Innovate kit to match with their datalogging software. (It's not a bad solution overall):

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/.../mtxl_plus.php

The OEM fuel pump should be fine, (with my setup, I'm at the limits of my injectors, not flow) but if you like, Deatschwerks has a nice high flow option for the Mini. (According to my gauge, the OEM pump will maintain almost 4 bar at the rail)

For a Cam, since you're not in the states, it look at CAT Cams, or one of the new Thumper Cams, he ships overseas.

As for an inexpensive Headers, there were a few out there, OBX has decent reviews.
 

Last edited by BlwnAway; 03-03-2019 at 11:38 AM.
  #4  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by IQRaceworks View Post
What software are you using to make changes in the fuel/timing maps? I'm assuming you have already done a pulley upgrade, and an exhaust? Will the 550cc injectors flow enough for running e85? I thought I saw another thread a while ago where they were running 600+cc injectors when they were switching over to e85.
I'm using WinOLS to change the values and have someone writing them into my dataset (that's the step I don't do myself...)
I didn't change the pulley as I have a JCW kit and I'm fine with it.
The 550cc will be fine I think but you are right, 650cc would have been the safest option
Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
You'll find some of the info you're looking for in this thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...e-questio.html

As far as AFR gauges/kits, anything that provides logging software will work, but if you look into the ByteTronik tuning as mentioned in the other thread it will have to be the Innovate kit to match with their datalogging software. (It's not a bad solution overall):

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/.../mtxl_plus.php

The OEM fuel pump should be fine, (with my setup, I'm at the limits of my injectors, not flow) but if you like, Deatschwerks has a nice high flow option for the Mini. (According to my gauge, the OEM pump will maintain almost 4 bar at the rail)

For a Cam, since you're not in the states, it look at CAT Cams, or one of the new Tbumper Cams, he ships overseas.

As for an inexpensive Headers, there were a few out there, OBX has decent reviews.
Thanks a lot,

I ordered a scorpion exhaust manifold, it has an additionnal plug for a AFR sensor which is nice!
As for a cam, I think Catcams 469 would be perfect!

I thought the standard fuel pressure was 43,5 PSI which is 3 bar, you are measuring 4 bar on your car?

thanks
 
  #5  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
I'm using WinOLS to change the values and have someone writing them into my dataset (that's the step I don't do myself...)
I didn't change the pulley as I have a JCW kit and I'm fine with it.
The 550cc will be fine I think but you are right, 650cc would have been the safest option

Thanks a lot,

I ordered a scorpion exhaust manifold, it has an additionnal plug for a AFR sensor which is nice!
As for a cam, I think Catcams 469 would be perfect!

I thought the standard fuel pressure was 43,5 PSI which is 3 bar, you are measuring 4 bar on your car?

thanks
​​​​​​My gauge is connected to the fuel rail and showing consistent 57-58 psi (so almost 4 bar, after the regulator, I think the pump itself is capable to the low 60 psi range) at WOT in the higher RPM's.
and yes, go with the 650's to give yourself some headroom, the duty cycle on 550's with the Cam, exhaust and e85, will be well into the 90% range.
 

Last edited by BlwnAway; 02-12-2019 at 09:54 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
​​​​​​My gauge is connected to the fuel rail and showing consistent 57-58 psi (so almost 4 bar, after the regulator, I think the pump itself is capable to the low 60 psi range) at WOT in the higher RPM's.
and yes, go with the 650's to give yourself some headroom, the duty cycle on 550's with the Cam, exhaust and e85, will be well into the 90% range.
I got the 550cc at a very good price so I'll give them a try first...
I did some calculations, the 550cc will allow 35% enrichment, which is more or less the target considering that ethanol is here between E65 and E85 depending on the season, and the fuel ratio can be leaned a bit with ethanol burning colder than gasoline.

An EGT sensor might be a good idea to check all that!
 
  #7  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
I got the 550cc at a very good price so I'll give them a try first...
I did some calculations, the 550cc will allow 35% enrichment, which is more or less the target considering that ethanol is here between E65 and E85 depending on the season, and the fuel ratio can be leaned a bit with ethanol burning colder than gasoline.

An EGT sensor might be a good idea to check all that!

Absolutely, since you already have them.

As far as EGT, possibly, I know I wanted one for sure with my turbo conversion.
The company I gave you the link to for the wideband / AFR, also makes an EGT gauge kit that can be daisy chained together with the AFR for logging purposes.
If you're thinking about it, don't forget to add a bung and plug to your header while it's out.

Good luck
 
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:16 PM
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Do you have the map locations/map pack/damos for WinOLS? Would be really interesting to look through with WinOLS. I have the binary readout from my stock JCW 2006 so would be interesting in looking through the maps...just for fun... I don't have any mods so don't need to change anything.
 
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by m100JCW View Post
Do you have the map locations/map pack/damos for WinOLS? Would be really interesting to look through with WinOLS. I have the binary readout from my stock JCW 2006 so would be interesting in looking through the maps...just for fun... I don't have any mods so don't need to change anything.
Sensitive stuff! I have a friend that knows a lot about that. I use his PC to change the maps, ans then his does his magic to make the tune writable in the ECU. I think he uses some kind of Bytetronik solution to do that
 
  #10  
Old 02-21-2019, 11:52 AM
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Header is here!
I think Scorpion was in only 4-2-1 available, all others are 4-1 I think


 
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by m100JCW View Post
Do you have the map locations/map pack/damos for WinOLS? Would be really interesting to look through with WinOLS. I have the binary readout from my stock JCW 2006 so would be interesting in looking through the maps...just for fun... I don't have any mods so don't need to change anything.
You'd stand to gain 5-10% engine output with a proper custom tune on a completely stock engine. Mostly trimming up the fueling and ignition maps to both make more power, and likely be more fuel efficient. These cars are pretty rich from the factory - I think as BMW's way of keeping combustion chamber temperatures down a bit.

OP: any interest in a water/meth kit spraying the intake post IC? I've seen some logs around here where it made HUGE improvements in IAT and thus AFR consistencies.
 
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by veedubpat View Post
You'd stand to gain 5-10% engine output with a proper custom tune on a completely stock engine. Mostly trimming up the fueling and ignition maps to both make more power, and likely be more fuel efficient. These cars are pretty rich from the factory - I think as BMW's way of keeping combustion chamber temperatures down a bit.

OP: any interest in a water/meth kit spraying the intake post IC? I've seen some logs around here where it made HUGE improvements in IAT and thus AFR consistencies.
stock fuel map is rich as hell as you said. I don't think I'll go for meth for now, with the upgraded header and the decat the exhaust temps will be low and the ethanol will also allow more timing and lower exhaust temps. I just installed an EGT sensor on the manifold. Mods are beginning, we are getting out the engine to change the clutch first
 
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:34 AM
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would love to know how you added more pops & bangs, I have an rmw tune on my track car and I lost all the pops/bangs, I would really like to get them back (yes I have asked)
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MrBlah View Post
would love to know how you added more pops & bangs, I have an rmw tune on my track car and I lost all the pops/bangs, I would really like to get them back (yes I have asked)
Most of that backfiring is due to poor timing and fueling maps on decel. The RMW tune got rid of that stuff because it's a better running tune.

Edit: Unless there's some heavy-overlap camming going on, anyway. potato potato potato :laugh:
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:29 AM
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still want it back
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by veedubpat View Post
Most of that backfiring is due to poor timing and fueling maps on decel. The RMW tune got rid of that stuff because it's a better running tune.

Edit: Unless there's some heavy-overlap camming going on, anyway. potato potato potato :laugh:
Not that simple. Timing and fueling are perfectly fine in the stock tune and I don't think there is any better tune for stock engine. Which hardware is required to run RMW tune? What gains do they claim?

A better running tune maybe, but disabling pops is absolutely no sign of a better tune, it's just a sign of changes in fueling and timings.
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
Not that simple. Timing and fueling are perfectly fine in the stock tune and I don't think there is any better tune for stock engine. Which hardware is required to run RMW tune? What gains do they claim?

A better running tune maybe, but disabling pops is absolutely no sign of a better tune, it's just a sign of changes in fueling and timings.
Better power, better drivability, better fuel economy while cruising... all the direct result of 3rd party custom tuning for fuel, altitude, and varying other local conditions. Custom tunes, on pretty much every vehicle, stand to gain about 10% output. More when switching to standalone.

That, by definition, is indicative that the factory tuning is inadequate. In the instance of the various audible anomalies that result from rich AFRs (in the 9's on a hard pull, let's be serious here...), yeah, they're still going to disappear once the car is properly sorted.

No hardware required for tuning. Or all the hardware; that's the point of tuning. And saying that BMW did a "perfectly fine stock tune" indicates that more research is required.
By all means though, if you want some extra pops and noises on decel, just add a bunch of unnecessary fuel. That'll affect your spark plugs as this isn't a direct injection motor.
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by veedubpat View Post
Better power, better drivability, better fuel economy while cruising... all the direct result of 3rd party custom tuning for fuel, altitude, and varying other local conditions. Custom tunes, on pretty much every vehicle, stand to gain about 10% output. More when switching to standalone.

That, by definition, is indicative that the factory tuning is inadequate. In the instance of the various audible anomalies that result from rich AFRs (in the 9's on a hard pull, let's be serious here...), yeah, they're still going to disappear once the car is properly sorted.

No hardware required for tuning. Or all the hardware; that's the point of tuning. And saying that BMW did a "perfectly fine stock tune" indicates that more research is required.
By all means though, if you want some extra pops and noises on decel, just add a bunch of unnecessary fuel. That'll affect your spark plugs as this isn't a direct injection motor.
As a calibration engineer for OEMs, I strongly disagree with you.
No independent tuner will produce a tune as good as the stock one for a stock engine, not even close. OEM do not spend millions do produce a bad tune.
when I say good, I do not only refer to power but also emission standards compliance and reliability.
10% power more on stock R53 engine? Doubt it.
Yes the tune is rich and it causes bad mpg, but it's for reliabilty reasons. If you lean out the tune the engine is less reliable, meaning some high stress tests performed by Mini wouldn't pass. In our case the tune is rich to protect the exhaust component including the cat.

I'm always amazed how people think OEMs engineer are stupid and every tuner with a PC and a roller bench could do better.
It's years of development, thousands of emission cycles, dozens of field trips in extreme climate conditions, hundreds of engineers working full time on the tune and software, millions spent on testing facilities... It's precise work believe me.

 
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:04 PM
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Exactly..
The factory tunes for exhaust / emissions calibrations and reliability for "All" drivers and situations (including those who don't keep up on maintenance and think it's ok to run lower octane fuel simply because it's cheaper and "how much difference can it really make" )

Plus the factory has to tune for parts in general, in other words, batch tuning for the parts specs, not an individual parts actual performance.
Everyone knows that parts differ in the way they work off of a line, even ones that are produced right before or after another, then couple those individual performing parts with hundreds of other individual parts and you get an engine that performs slightly different than any other engine.
Will a thousand engines perform within a certain tolerance, yes, will they all perform exactly the same, absolutely not.
The factory simply tunes for their intended fuel economy, emissions restrictions and longevity for "most" costumers, because tuning each and every car separately would be extremely cost prohibitive and impossible to factor in the conditions that vehicle will be operated in, owner and environmental.
A custom tune will optimize the way all of your specific parts work with each other.

But this is also why some individuals see big gains and some small, some times the factory tune just happens to get it right for how a cars parts are working together, and other times they don't, but you'll never know without checking.

But because the factory tunes rich in general to compensate for many outside influences, there are usually some gains to be had custom tuning even a bone stock vehicle. Leaning out a tune doesn't cause an engine to be less reliable, leaning out a tune "too much" does, this is why it is important too use a reputable tuner you can trust to do the job properly.

I for one, don't in any way consider factory tuners stupid, it's quite the opposite.
I can see how batch tuning for many variables can be far more difficult than individually tuning one single engine, esp with all the restrictions factory tuners have to meet, whether it be environmental, mechanical or financial.

But it still doesn't create an optimal tune for that individual vehicle.
 

Last edited by BlwnAway; 03-03-2019 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
I'm always amazed how people think OEMs engineer are stupid and every tuner with a PC and a roller bench could do better.
It's years of development, thousands of emission cycles, dozens of field trips in extreme climate conditions, hundreds of engineers working full time on the tune and software, millions spent on testing facilities... It's precise work believe me.
I'll skip the earlier mire and just address this:

OEM's tune for NVH because normal peasant car owners aren't enthusiasts and don't care that bearings make for lateral grip. Every single design and engineering concept at the standard production level is designed to make the money money: and nobody is making LMP Mini Coopers - so there's always room for improvement.
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by veedubpat View Post
I'll skip the earlier mire and just address this:

OEM's tune for NVH because normal peasant car owners aren't enthusiasts and don't care that bearings make for lateral grip. Every single design and engineering concept at the standard production level is designed to make the money money: and nobody is making LMP Mini Coopers - so there's always room for improvement.
This does apply for early stages of development of the engine itself, not tuning. Once the tuning phase begins, the goal is to pass emissions, guarantee reliabilty and maximize power.
Room for improvement of a fixed volume supercharged engine is either fueling or timing. Fuel is here as you can see, timings are limited by knock with 91 octane fuel with a little margin. So yes, you could add 1°CRK of spark advance if you want. That will make 2hp more and some knock on very hot days. There are no other tuning levers.
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:40 PM
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The only real way to do it safely and correctly. We have developed a flex fuel kit which will allow you to dump anything in the tank from pump gas to E100 and the car will run correctly. No more worrying about proper mixtures and fuel delivery flow issues. Bigger pump, custom lines, flex fuel sensor, fuel pressure sensor , fuel temp sensor and even oil temp/oil pressure if you want it. We have 3 different kits depending on hp levels to address all of the issues you will encounter at each stage
 
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Revolution Motor Works View Post
The only real way to do it safely and correctly. We have developed a flex fuel kit which will allow you to dump anything in the tank from pump gas to E100 and the car will run correctly. No more worrying about proper mixtures and fuel delivery flow issues. Bigger pump, custom lines, flex fuel sensor, fuel pressure sensor , fuel temp sensor and even oil temp/oil pressure if you want it. We have 3 different kits depending on hp levels to address all of the issues you will encounter at each stage
Hi,
Does it work with stock ECU or standalone only? Does it adjust timings or just fuel?
I would be interested by the pump and lines, can't find them in your web store.

Thanks!
 
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SuN13300 View Post
Hi,
Does it work with stock ECU or standalone only? Does it adjust timings or just fuel?
I would be interested by the pump and lines, can't find them in your web store.

Thanks!
its stand alone only. It's a full motorsport ecu with traction control, launch control, boost control, knock control, closed loop control..........etc etc
It has multi-fuel capabilities to run the flex fuel sensor, you tune the car on pump gas and all the way to e100 if you like
you set up the tables in the fuel system, timing etc to your car.

Ecu, is $1200
-6 fuel lines and all fittings to install, high flow fuel pump,boost-a pump, 1000cc injectors, auxiliary wiring harness to run sensors, flex fuel sensor and fuel pressure sensor $1375
 
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:28 AM
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There will never be a factory ECU Flex-Fuel option for gen 1 cars, it's simply an out dated platform.

If you need to use the factory ECU for legal (inspections) reasons, your only option is to create separate maps for individual fuel types, and load them accordingly. Plus have all the necessary ancillary hardware as well. (Injectors, Fuel Pump, Regulator) Depending on the ethanol content.
 

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