actually, i was unhappy with how hot the water gets before the fan turns on (215 degrees) so I attempted to put in a standalone thermostat control. blew fuses do to a meager relay system and my meager understanding, so I went back. nine months later it is biting me in the ***.

 

Ryan,

I'd be curious to see you MAP data with the Unichip removed. I realize that doesn't have anything to do with the HAI, but your MAP readings do not reflect actual manifold pressure. I noticed that in your revised runs with RPM, the low-boost anomaly with the HAI is gone.

 

Ok whats next ?

Randy

 

Since you did extensive testing of the HAI, Alta, as well as your "AGS", would you mind posting your findings?

 

So what exactly is the relevance of these MAP values? They dont make any sense. My car could never make that much boost that early. My guess is its just a graph of the voltage clamp of the Unichip.

How are you calculating PSI to two decimal place precision? My OBDII reads only integer values of kPa on the Cooper S. Im not sure if better resolution is possible via OBD II.

 

Wow, the Alta is pulling 10 ftlbs on the HAI at 3700 RPMS. Looks like about 10HP as well. Did your Alta have that much of an impact against the stock intake?

--
Cheese

 

To put it simply - the HAI made it tough to spin the tires in 2nd gear whereas the ALTA CAI was more effortless to spin the tires in 2nd gear. It's possible the HAI yielded less power on my car than the stock airbox, though I have not done measurements recently that would be relevant. I must say I did prefer the smooth drivability of the HAI - however the ultimate lack of power made the less refined drivability of the ALTA worth the compromise.

 

So, these graphs show the exact OPPOSITE of what the latest show. These show higher flow (lower pressure drop at identical RPM). WTF?????

Matt

 

Matt: Andy has not performed dyno runs of any sort on his HAI, so the MAP readings only show part of the story. Pressure does not equal [laminar] airflow. Andy also didn't log those runs on the same day. While he states the temps were simlar, that does not mean the atmospheric pressures were similar.

Ryan

 

Ryephile,
Wow, thanks again for the hard work, and pruving what we have always said, "Our intake gains 10-12WHP". It doesn't surprise me at all with the upstream intake pressure, and it being lower than the KN. With our larger intake tube and better higher flowing filter, it should be lower. Although the boost graph is kind of wierd?????It looks like it needs to be offset back a little for the peak boost/redline to line up. These were on different days, right? This is something i would expect to see (boost dropping) when an exhaust and header are installed, but not with an intake.

Great work, and if you would like our dyno graphs with stock intake vs. ours let me know!

maxmini, asked whats next? I too have been looking for the comparo with our part vs. the AGS. When can we all plan on seeing this? I also would love to see the JCW intake vs. ours. I think people will be completly surprised that our intake still out performs the JCW part.

ALTA performance

 

I'm not sure which boost graph or which comparison you are referring to. Ryephile used a generic OBD-II scanner that has a maximum of 200 data points between 0 and 2 bar absolute. Since he has the Unichip, his ECU does not know what the actual MAP values are, merely what the Unichip wants to relay to the ECU. In reality, boost looks nothing like Ryephile's graphs.

These comparisons were not done between the K&N Typhoon and the Alta. They were done between a bare K&N RU-1551 clamped directly to the throttle body, compared to the Alta intake. So, your statement about the "larger intake tube" makes no sense. There is no tube at all in the HAI setup.

That said, I'd like to see your dyno plots.

 

andy,
I was first refering to the upstream graph and how it was lower, then refering to the boost pressure graph. I missed the fact the unichip is involved, that would explain some differences in the manifold pressure being off.

As for the intake tube, i should have thought before i typed, you are right.
Here are the graphs, note the 10peak WHP gain, and the 13WHP gain at 6k. Torque gained 10ft/lbs from 5k up with a peak of 6ft/lbs at 4k. And this was back when we were using a slightly more restrictive filter! Here is the MD graph!

 

You're looking at a graph of negative pressure. Yours is lower only graphically, its HIGHER numerically. The larger absolute pressure value indicates more work is being done to pull the desired ammount of air into the system. ie your system performs worse

--
Cheese

 

Alta2,

Have you had the opportunity to compare the 05 JCW dual stage AI to your current Alta? On and otherwise stock 05 JCW - in an effort to keep all things equal.

 

Cheese,
Your right, i was just not reading the graph correctly. But since was done on a different day with different AP, then the very slight .1 psi is nothing to even worry about. And it is obvious that our intake doesn't perform worse from the dyno graph. There are to many variables with these graphs to make a difinative descision about what they mean. Logs from the Same day, same road, 5 minutes apart would clear that up for us.

meb,
I have looked at one very closely, and i hate to say it is a waste of money. The filter/airbox is basically the same as the S, except for this rather small hole that opens up under some peticular load. I say small hole because compared to ours, which removes that whole plastic wall, it is small. The rubber hose that runs from the air box to the TB looks like the same small size. I think the price that mini is charging is way too much for what it does. I would put our intake up agaist the JCW anyday, because i am sure it will make more power and for less money.


ALTA PERFORMANCE

 

So when you thought it favored your intake, it was a useful tool but now that it doesnt its irrelevant? The .2 PSI upstream difference between the two is nothing to sneeze at. That about 15% different, no? That "dyno graph" isn't exactly legit. It's also generated/computed from OBDII data.

--
Cheese

 

Thought so...I wrote an entire reply regarding the thinking that went into the JCW kit. Thought I would be kind and spared all of you, I erased it. But really, $6,000???

The more I learn about this kit the more I feel like making like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar - beating himself up in the bathroom. I need a tylenol!

 

Well....to add to all this dyno "theory"

I'll be putting my hai\one-ball\15% pulley up to the dyno (248c dynojet) in the next coming weeks.

It will be 3 pulls. 1 with the above setup, 1 with stock intake and above, and 1 with k&N drop in panel filter, stock box and above setup.


I'll post the 3 pulls when i get them. Wish i had an alta to throw in the mix ...

Maybe ill see about buying a used one soon.

Will.

 

Cool. Airflow is really important to the efficiency of the HAI so make sure that the dyno facility has sufficient fans.

--
Cheese

 

Weve got a huge swamp fan, and it will definately be on...

 

The hard thing about dynos... it's completely different in terms of airflow than if you were accelerating on a road, even with big fans. Especially since on the road - the hood is down, and on a dyno it's pretty much always up.

 

I believe this is the right time to share this modification that I have done to my car over a year ago.

SAI - Split Air Intake

Because the opening on the hood for the Intercooler is larger than the intercooler itself, I wanted to use this wasted space and channel the air to the air filter intake. I made the modified cover for the Intercooler of aluminum. Notice that there is a divider for the side of the intercooler and the new air path to the air filter.

When anyone sees this setup, the first question is always: does this not reduce the air that goes to intercooler? I asked the thermal engineer in my company if this was a concern. He models airflow for a living and has done this for over 25 years. He agreed with my observation that the extra space area not used as an intercooler creates a vortex that would create back pressure and decrease the efficience of the intercooler. By forcing the air that goes to the intercooler to stay in a straght direction to the intercooler, air keeps its velocity better and more will flow through it than in the other set up. Granted, I have not done any experiments to measure this, but it is logical.

Notice that I had kept the air coming from the stock air source, but modified it by increasing the diameter at the later part to the airbox. Just to help some with the backpressure.

I have driven this for over 10K miles and not had any problems at all in heavy rain.

Your comments are welcomed.

Bomboasy

PS. The modified divider cost me about $7 for the "L" aluminum pieces and I cut a piece of an aluminum rack shelf for the rest. I did all the cutting myself. Finding a rubber piece to go the last distance to the air box was not easy. The gap allows water to drop off.

 

I wonder if you had a front mounted intercooler, if it would be possible to channel all the air from the hood scoop into an air intake (perhaps more directly than is standard).

 

Bomboasy,
Would it be possible to remove the inside of the scoop(under the hood) and put some kind of rubber boot or maybe a rubber hose, split to fit over the top of the aluminum so you get a better seal to the hood. It is something I have been playing around with also, but I was using ABS plastic instead of aluminum. Also, you are right, there is more air coming in and just swirling around in the engine compartment, just need to funnel it to the right place. Just curious.
Chuck

 

Well...I'll be spraying nitrous over the intercooler to keep it cooled. So i'll use that on all of the runs to maintain a constant temp over the intercooler. (eliminates heat soakage after 1st run, and will simulate more "freeway" type intercooling.

Like i said, ill post up some charts when i get this done. But first, my cars going in for a new clutch .

Will.