hokay.... so this is just kinda an informant thing for people out there... lots of people have visual differences and reference points between the different intakes and exhausts out there... but no one has actually put the two most popular FMICs on the market head to head.... WELL I WILL!

So here are a bunch of side by side comparisons of the Helix step intercooler and the Alta Intercooler. both have been on my car (Alta one now belongs to Tinman, he can give you a second opinion of that intercooler if you want/need it) i'm not posting any pics of the Alta intercooler on my mini because a) since it was stealth my pictures of it on my car are basically USELESS :P, and b) all my pics of the install for the alta intercooler have magically vanished off my computer *stupid gremlins....*

SO! for all of those who are interested in the head to head battle of these two, here are the direct dimensional comparison of the two... same concept, two different approaches!


















SOOOO in case no one has seen my comparison posts in other threads... here's my take on the two head to head. they BOTH make power... i would hope so... they're both designed well... Alta takes the more surface area in the front grill approach, and Helix uses the space that was given to them more efficiently by making the bottom section a lot thicker than stock (damn should have put a stock intercooler next to both to compare that as well...) and then adds the additional top piece to aid in extra cooling. the pressure drop in both is about the same, helix's is a little less... more around .5 psi drop (lots of threads of helix's actual efficiencies elsewhere in the forum). so actual performance from the seat of the car!!

Alta - The alta intercooler makes the power feel very peaky especially in the low to mid range. only downside is there is some cutting needed to make it fit properly in the space in the lower bumper.

Helix - The Helix intercooler isn't peaky but instead seems to VERY WELL improve the power all around the power band rather than just the mid range. the car seems to pull better from every single engine speed, and it's a very noticable gain all around, even at high rpm. the install is worlds easier than alta because of the step intercooler design and the amazing fit and finish. it uses the space given to it from the stock intercooler perfectly and improves upon it. install was worlds easier because of the different angle on the cold side of the intercooler (see photos above), so there was no kama sutra (spelling?) of the charge piping to get it to fit... not that the alta one fit badly.. it just needed a bit of coaxing to get it to fit the hoses on (that's what she said).

hopefully this will help those people looking into intercoolers and will take some of the redundancies out of other IC posts...


oh and before anyone asks... the tape on the Helix intercooler (if you look at the pics) i used to have on the alta one as well... it has nothing to do with fitment of either, i just use it as an extra way to help keep the tubes sealed tight (helpful in high boost situations like a tune ;P)

 

does anyone know the difference from the helix to the forge? really leaning towards the helix but the forge looks exactly the same as the helix but just a little taller like the alta...

 

forge is basically a copy of helix's design... helix came out with it but forge is not quite as well executed... (especially if you look at the welds and endtanks, it's just not as well made as helix.... Helix just put SOOOOO much R&D into theirs and ti shows in the fit and finish and the full out performance and look of their intercooler) a good point and proof of this is the fact that very few people have forge's IC... but there are always people getting Helix's intercooler.
point in case... forge


Helix



the intercoolers and info looks very similar.... except that helix has more, and better executed design (and the first of the step intercooler design... forge just rushed it along to be the first on the market with the step intercooler) but the welds are the look of a prototype more so than a finished product in my opinion, and when comparing to helix... i wonder how forge is more when it's seemingly more crudely made... and if you look close, you can physically see how forge's is literally two off the shelf intercooler cores put together... one tall and one thick one, then they made the end tanks where as helix's is made for it's specific design and specs, not off the shelf.

 

ahh sweet thanks dunphyj for pointing those things out to me...never really payed attention to it....now you got me set for the helix

 

First of all, thanks for the comparison photos. It's nice when a member takes the time to document and share stuff like this.

Assuming Forge did copy Helix, it appears they actually improved upon the design. The Helix cooler appears to use a cast endtank which would be why it looks cleaner but if you look at the Forge endtank it has a more appropriate ramp angle to force air into the upper section of the intercooler. The welds on the Forge piece are actually quite good. Do you see the huge puddle around the inlet of the Helix intercooler? That's not so clean. In all, from a fluid dynamics standpoint, I have to question how much charge air actually passes through the skinnier upper portion of either design. Props to Helix on an original design and utilization of the space given but I wouldn't bash the Forge design because it doesn't "look" as finished.

I've had five foreced induction cars in the past and I've shopped a LOT of intercoolers over the years. Many of the best coolers have been TIG welded sheet metal endtanks. I don't think that makes it crude. Both intercoolers appear to be a two core design and the placement of each is nearly identical. In all, I'd say they're probably both quite good. I'm not quite sure why you're so biased against the Forge intercooler. Do you work for Helix or something?

What I would really like to see is for someone to bench test these for pressure drop and do some thermal imaging to see which areas on the intercooler are actually doing some cooling. I suspect that the thicker-than-stock lower section is what's providing most of the benefit while the skinnier top section is acting like a heat sink and cooling the intercooler itself which should help some with heat soak.

 

WOW...well done Dunphyj!!! Thanks a ton for the write up. These types of comparisons is one of the reasons I'm a member on this board. Info and opinions like this help a bunch.

Thanks again.

 

Great comparison between the stepped and straight ICs.

As you have shown, I think that the stepped can offer some interesting advantages in space utilization. That is what attracted me to the Helix. Now for some Dynos and track tests.

I think Forge preceded Helix by quite a bit. I do not know much about it so cannot comment on the differences. But from afar and talking to one person with one, the Forge does seem like a nice sturdy piece as well.

Dunphyj, The fin density looks different between the two ICs? Do you think the fin density makes any difference at all?

 

Well to be honest I am bias towards helix mainly because I know them personally very well and just find it amusing that once they put up the concept for their ic that forge comes out with a similar one withing a couple months... Also though they are similar the lower core of helix is notably bigger and the endtanks hold up very well in all circumstances...

IMHO I don't think the upper part is as much for cooling the charge air as the bottom portion... The majority of the charge air would go through the bottom and tho I am no ic designer or tech, I think it's better for most or majority of the charge to gothrough the path of least resistence... Yes I'm sure that forge has better end tank design to use both cores... But I haven't come across many people ( actually any people yet) who has forge ic.... Not to say it's a bad product... I'm sure it wouldn't be on the market if it was bad. I'd actually like to find out if anyone who has one has done track days and how well forge has held up...

In the end I'm actually in no real place to comment about forge and their ic... I have neither owned one or come across one. Not to mention my thread is specifically titled alta vs helix... Just because those two are the most debated ic out there and I'm sure could be swapped with m7 and forge's designs

 

Forge is Quality !

Take it from someone who has owned 30+ turbo cars and tuned 1000s of customer cars since 1978 .

 

FYI, Forge came out with their IC quite a bit earlier than Helix.

 

i would have to agree with that assessment of Helix's design vs Forge's, my guess if forge tries to use both cores for cooling while, like you said, helix uses the thicker than stock lower section for most of it's benefits and using the upper section for more cooling the intercooler itself.

there you have it... if Stig says forge is quality i am not one to say otherwise. Stig seriously knows what he's talking about. (see Top Gear for reference )

btw there is real time info and all that from Helix in this thread
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...l-results.html

 

I use Bar and plate Intercoolers like alta design when i turbocharge engine that will see limited boost like amg 63 engines,mustang,corvettes ,camero /firebirds for street applications.

I use fabricated intercoolers like the forge type in High boost huge horsepower
high under hood tempeture cars like Vipers,Ford GT,360/430 Ferrari and all lamborghini in these type of high dollar custom fabricated hand built conversions.

 

Now just to get high boost high hp minis... By high I mean 300whp... Cuz let's be honest, after that fwd cars just have toouch trouble getting the power down...

 

That is the only reason i do not have a motec ems on my jcw .

 

Hehehe fwd burnouts in a mini :p

 

T is nice tho that the jcw's have a much smoother power band

 

Had a 350 hp 1984 colt turbo that was a countach killer in 3rd and 4th gear

 

Forge was among the first to bring out an IC for the R56 (2007). Maybe they just didn't get exposure here because they are in the UK.

 

I'd have to agree, while it is possible that Forge copied the stepped core idea, they had a complete kit on the market long before Helix 13 & the stepped core idea in general isn't new.
I've installed both the Helix & the Forge IC's and while I'd prefer to support the locals, I really like the quality of the Forge along with the factory mounting tabs. It's a real professionally put together kit.
Now if Helix would copy the Forge design a bit & add the tabs, I think it'd be a relatively even toss up.

 

I have seen both pieces personally and at stock turbo power levels, both will do a VERY nice job of keeping things cool .

 

Anything over 25 lbs i would want a forge.

 

True, when I was looking to buy a fmic the only 2 options we had was Alta and Forge. Helix was starting to make the drawings!

Im very happy with my forge fmic, I didnt have to cut anything and it was completly bolt on.

So easy a caveman could do it!!!!

 

we based our r56 stepped core intercooler off of our extremely successful 335i design. a little history we posted cad and solidworks drawings as well as had working prototypes in testing(R&D to release a perfect product and not until it was a perfect product) on this site far in advance of the Forge offering. as a side bar this was posted on MINI2.com to get the facts and timeline straight...
http://www.mini2.com/forum/second-ge...items-r56.html

"I had Forge try and build an intercooler for my R56 MCS, they had the car for two weeks and made many tests concluding that there wasnt room for a worthwhile intercooler and the one on it was efficient."

as far as our intercooler is concerned it is a single core(not 2 cores) we have built specifically for this platform and features ambient and charge fin densities that we found through our testing(we tested different cores)to be the best balance of ait and pressure drop. The Helix FMIC is a custom model specific design from the ground up.
About me, I have over 20 years of turbo design and tuning experience, my personal vehicles and those that I have worked on have been featured in European Car, Sport Compact Car, Sema, Ultimate Street Car Challenge and Forza 2 Motorsport Video games. I was also involved in Sport Compact drag racing with Team Mopar and was the GM Performance recommended street car tuner for the Ecotec engines in the GM build book and my intercoolers have been raced at 40+psi of boost!

 

Thank u mark!

 

Bar and Plate is a type of INTERCOOLER CORE

whats fabricated are the END TANKS

In general when you are dealing with one offs and custom work you would fabricate endtanks such as these we fabricated for my Audi S4 as the engineering and up front costs are prohibitive of using a cast endtank:



A good quality casting can be designed to flow better and last longer than a fabricated unit as there are less weld joints to potentially fail.


The car guy in me would really love to see some of your hand built Custom Projects, especially the turbo Lamborghini or Ferrari 430