Drivetrain WMW Turbo Wrap
I suggested to Way that he should include a warning about the smoke when the adhesives cure. He warned me just as we were pulling away from his shop 
It was a tiny amount of white smoke, and only lasted a couple of minutes, but any unexpected smoke from the engine is scary
I have put around 1000 miles on the car with the production heat shield now, and it's doing great. It's getting a workout this weekend at its third autocross, and then the first track weekend of the season in a couple of weeks. The left side of the miniusa.com sponsor vinyl is sitting right over the turbo, but I wouldn't try that with only the OEM heat shield in place
It was a tiny amount of white smoke, and only lasted a couple of minutes, but any unexpected smoke from the engine is scary
I have put around 1000 miles on the car with the production heat shield now, and it's doing great. It's getting a workout this weekend at its third autocross, and then the first track weekend of the season in a couple of weeks. The left side of the miniusa.com sponsor vinyl is sitting right over the turbo, but I wouldn't try that with only the OEM heat shield in place
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
after a couple runs and 100 degree weather here, I was able to remove the heat shield 2 hours after stopping the car and remove the wrap ! Try that without the wrap
BTW, mine smoked like fire. My wife was screaming the engine was on fire. Having done this before I knew it was just the materials curing
Hmm, I wonder if Way "broke mine in" after installing it? Mine only smoked for a couple of traffic lights.
Mine has been taken off and re-installed a few times for Way to inspect it. I didn't flex it much while off. It didn't feel rigid to me, though.
Mine has been taken off and re-installed a few times for Way to inspect it. I didn't flex it much while off. It didn't feel rigid to me, though.
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Hi Terry,
I spoke to Way this afternoon (GMT-8 our time) and he did mention that they seem to vary in how much they smoke. I seemed to be on the higher end and said its normal. Everything is running fine with no problems.
Now when I say a bit fragile, what I mean is that it will not break like glass but you do not want to alter its shape drastically. Lets face it, that wrap is facing temps up to 2000 degrees, after time it will be well set in its ways and will not be as soft and supple as the day you bought.
I spoke to Way this afternoon (GMT-8 our time) and he did mention that they seem to vary in how much they smoke. I seemed to be on the higher end and said its normal. Everything is running fine with no problems.
Now when I say a bit fragile, what I mean is that it will not break like glass but you do not want to alter its shape drastically. Lets face it, that wrap is facing temps up to 2000 degrees, after time it will be well set in its ways and will not be as soft and supple as the day you bought.
School away from MINI
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 452
Likes: 1
From: 20 min from Pittsburgh, PA
Another thing to get my hands on. So many products so little money. I'm assuming with this it'd be alot easier to install a downpipe? or does the OEM heat shield go back over the turbo wrap?
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Hint, if take the OEM heat shield and take the right most 2 front bolt holes and elongate the hole into slots like the front most left, its a snap to re-install the front bolts before putting the oem heat shield back on. Otherwise you wil have to find a way to get hands down there with very little room.
Mine comes off rather quickly now and gone on in a snap (hot or cold) with the wrap in place.
Also make sure you tuck the side facing the oil cooling line well and to not put the wrap over the lines. Goal is to cover the turbine side well and only the turbine.
BTW, as I told to Way this morning (and I have no ties to him what's so ever and separated by many many states), "First damn mod that did better than advertised" ! Well done !
Cheers.
Mine comes off rather quickly now and gone on in a snap (hot or cold) with the wrap in place.
Also make sure you tuck the side facing the oil cooling line well and to not put the wrap over the lines. Goal is to cover the turbine side well and only the turbine.
BTW, as I told to Way this morning (and I have no ties to him what's so ever and separated by many many states), "First damn mod that did better than advertised" ! Well done !
Cheers.
Last edited by morbius; May 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
Turbo longevity?
Do you have any observations to share with us about the longevity of any Suby turbos that have used such wraps for a few years or a few 10's of thousands of miles? I can understand the claimed upside of retaining heat within the turbo, but my one concern would be the longevity of the turbo itself, which endures an unbelievably harsh environment even without any extra heat retention. Are there any Suby's out there that have used a wrap long enought to draw conclusions about the long-term impct of this mod?
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
I could into a very long post on this but I think many will not understand from an engineer point of view. I will let some other engineer tackle that since I terrible at explaining things in a simplified method. Turbo wraps are nothing new and have been around a long time (nearly as long as turbo themselves).
From actual measurements, here is what I have seen so far. Un-wrapped turbo in my mini has a constant fluctuating temp due to the fact the the unit is acting as a heat sink.
This means that if you watch very closely you exhaust temp gas temp, you will see its all over the board on your car. On mine it was going from 800 to 1600 within miles. This is not good for many reason let alone at what it does for turbo itself.
With the wrap, my exhaust temp is now very steady at around 1400 with outside temp of 100. This mean the heat is being pushed out the exhaust and not the turbo. This is very good, take this as running the turbo cooler and at a more consistent temp. Also my water temp the same run has stayed steady at 220 verses 245 before. I do not currently have oil temp guage so I can speak from there, from other setups, I would say my oil temp should have gone down a bit ..... Turbo engines need oil coolers and mini does not have, dumb !
Also, now the ECU is monitoring real exhaust gas temp and not what has been pre-cooled which is very good and an important thing when doing tuning.
Another note, after two hours of sitting, I was about to service my turbo without gloves and wrap removed ! Do not try that with an OEM setup ! That alone mean that things are cooling faster from the touch method.
I would like to see if anyone here belongs to any other camp and can put in comments based on experience from that perspective.
From actual measurements, here is what I have seen so far. Un-wrapped turbo in my mini has a constant fluctuating temp due to the fact the the unit is acting as a heat sink.
This means that if you watch very closely you exhaust temp gas temp, you will see its all over the board on your car. On mine it was going from 800 to 1600 within miles. This is not good for many reason let alone at what it does for turbo itself.
With the wrap, my exhaust temp is now very steady at around 1400 with outside temp of 100. This mean the heat is being pushed out the exhaust and not the turbo. This is very good, take this as running the turbo cooler and at a more consistent temp. Also my water temp the same run has stayed steady at 220 verses 245 before. I do not currently have oil temp guage so I can speak from there, from other setups, I would say my oil temp should have gone down a bit ..... Turbo engines need oil coolers and mini does not have, dumb !
Also, now the ECU is monitoring real exhaust gas temp and not what has been pre-cooled which is very good and an important thing when doing tuning.
Another note, after two hours of sitting, I was about to service my turbo without gloves and wrap removed ! Do not try that with an OEM setup ! That alone mean that things are cooling faster from the touch method.
I would like to see if anyone here belongs to any other camp and can put in comments based on experience from that perspective.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
I could into a very long post on this but I think many will not understand from an engineer point of view. I will let some other engineer tackle that since I terrible at explaining things in a simplified method. Turbo wraps are nothing new and have been around a long time (nearly as long as turbo themselves).
From actual measurements, here is what I have seen so far. Un-wrapped turbo in my mini has a constant fluctuating temp due to the fact the the unit is acting as a heat sink.
This means that if you watch very closely you exhaust temp gas temp, you will see its all over the board on your car. On mine it was going from 800 to 1600 within miles. This is not good for many reason let alone at what it does for turbo itself.
With the wrap, my exhaust temp is now very steady at around 1400 with outside temp of 100. This mean the heat is being pushed out the exhaust and not the turbo. This is very good, take this as running the turbo cooler and at a more consistent temp. Also my water temp the same run has stayed steady at 220 verses 245 before. I do not currently have oil temp guage so I can speak from there, from other setups, I would say my oil temp should have gone down a bit ..... Turbo engines need oil coolers and mini does not have, dumb !
Also, now the ECU is monitoring real exhaust gas temp and not what has been pre-cooled which is very good and an important thing when doing tuning.
Another note, after two hours of sitting, I was about to service my turbo without gloves and wrap removed ! Do not try that with an OEM setup ! That alone mean that things are cooling faster from the touch method.
I would like to see if anyone here belongs to any other camp and can put in comments based on experience from that perspective.
From actual measurements, here is what I have seen so far. Un-wrapped turbo in my mini has a constant fluctuating temp due to the fact the the unit is acting as a heat sink.
This means that if you watch very closely you exhaust temp gas temp, you will see its all over the board on your car. On mine it was going from 800 to 1600 within miles. This is not good for many reason let alone at what it does for turbo itself.
With the wrap, my exhaust temp is now very steady at around 1400 with outside temp of 100. This mean the heat is being pushed out the exhaust and not the turbo. This is very good, take this as running the turbo cooler and at a more consistent temp. Also my water temp the same run has stayed steady at 220 verses 245 before. I do not currently have oil temp guage so I can speak from there, from other setups, I would say my oil temp should have gone down a bit ..... Turbo engines need oil coolers and mini does not have, dumb !
Also, now the ECU is monitoring real exhaust gas temp and not what has been pre-cooled which is very good and an important thing when doing tuning.
Another note, after two hours of sitting, I was about to service my turbo without gloves and wrap removed ! Do not try that with an OEM setup ! That alone mean that things are cooling faster from the touch method.
I would like to see if anyone here belongs to any other camp and can put in comments based on experience from that perspective.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis
Yah mine didnt smoke too long after put it on...of course Way and I drove decently hard to give the exhaust a good run at the same time, but it smoked like CRAZY for about 15 min, but by the time I had gotten home, maybe 3-4 miles away, no more smoke, just awesome boost...my boost guage is averaging about 12 lbs. and i have had it up to 16 now...that's about 3 lbs+ from normal
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Thanks for the feedback. I understand the idea of not allowing the turbo to act as a radiator, which is basically what your post above addresses, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm asking if anyone can cite emperical evidence (even if only anecdotal) that shows a comparison of the observed longevity of wrapped turbos vs. unwrapped turbos on the same model. Your data points are very interesting, and it's encouraging to see that the peak water temperature has apparently decreased, as has the peak exhaust gas temperature at whatever point you happen to be monitoring it. But I do have an engineering background, and in fact have used thermal imagers to monitor heating patterns on turbocharged engines in the past, and because of this I understand that single point measurements can be very deceiving. I've seen cases where the introudction of the sensor itself changes the temperature of the exhaust gas at the point of measurement, in a way that is completely unrepresentative of the thermal performance of the engine as a whole. You can spend a lot of time debating the long-term implications of couple of single point measurements, but the only way to establish for sure if a given turbo will last longer/as-long/not-as-long with a thermal wrap is to install many of them and compare the statistical results of observed longevity to other cars without the wrap. This may have already been done for other models of automobile - I honestly don't know the history here. That's what I'm looking for.
Yes, all my monitoring point are single and I would not consider them fact in any way shape or form, they are strictly observations. Proper measurements are a art form in itself and depending what you are measuring, proper steps have to be take to ensure you do not get the effect you mentioned. Your points are understood and very well put and make prefect sense.
Cheers.
Last edited by morbius; May 18, 2008 at 08:21 PM.
Thread Starter
|
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 895
Likes: 2
From: Canton, GA
A little more data. After a good buzz in the car on Saturday, I only got a peak temp on the bonnet (near the scoop) of 149.9 degrees. Previously it would get to about 180 after a highway blast and 190 after high-altitude running.
The highest temps happen about 5-8 minutes after the recirculating pump stops running.
And, for further reference, The Flying Squirrel (my first R56) had bonnet temps of about 240 degrees. Ouch.
The highest temps happen about 5-8 minutes after the recirculating pump stops running.
And, for further reference, The Flying Squirrel (my first R56) had bonnet temps of about 240 degrees. Ouch.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Hey guys, this is a great thread. My 08 Clubman S is having the same problems with heat. Starting to affect my scoop since its so damn hot. I'm assuming this shield will also work on the Clubman? I don't have a ton of hands on engine experience (not like I used to when was younger), but is it fairly easy to install? Much thanks
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
yarghhhhh...
i'm teetering on the fence on whether or not to pull the trigger on this.
LOVE the benefits of the wrap that i've read so far...
...i'm still kinda worried about any possible negative affects in the future.
i plan on keeping my car for at LEAST 5 yrs. i just want to make sure the person that inherits the car (or myself) will not encounter any problems related to the turbo or be told by the service department that i just screwed myself big time.
i'm teetering on the fence on whether or not to pull the trigger on this.
LOVE the benefits of the wrap that i've read so far...
...i'm still kinda worried about any possible negative affects in the future.
i plan on keeping my car for at LEAST 5 yrs. i just want to make sure the person that inherits the car (or myself) will not encounter any problems related to the turbo or be told by the service department that i just screwed myself big time.
Hey guys, this is a great thread. My 08 Clubman S is having the same problems with heat. Starting to affect my scoop since its so damn hot. I'm assuming this shield will also work on the Clubman? I don't have a ton of hands on engine experience (not like I used to when was younger), but is it fairly easy to install? Much thanks
The hardest part of the install is reinstalling the stock heatsheild back over it. Getting the bottom screws back in can be a tight squeeze.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Looks like a great idea, will have to look into getting it for mine. I will just have to find out what it would be worth to get it sent to Australia. You guys are lucky you have so many options in the US, not like us.
5th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 880
Likes: 0
From: florida
has anybody painted there stock heat shield with like a high heat paint . like maybe vht or something like that . i was thinking on the lines of just looks but if it helps just a lil then it seems to be worth doing even more. i would like to paint mine a nice black , maybe a satin black or something close to that .hey mr way whens my wmw wrap coming i want to get it on buddy , cant wait.
Dr. Morbius
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
I am located in the Bay Area near Berkeley. More than happy to display setup. Drop me a private message and we can work something out. If the car is cool, I could pop off the heat shield for a better view .....
Hhhmmm, should take pics also to post here at that time
Cheers.