I have an 02 MCS with Dinan intake, Unichip, 15% pulley, Borla street, Webb camber kit, BBS wheels, Hsport springs, Koni shocks, H sport rear camber adjust, Power slot fronts with Ferodo 2500s. I have a Webb TB on the way. My question to all you mod freakes is, when does the car cease to be fun to drive dailey? I keep getting warnings of going too far. So far I'm loving it. Once in a while the suspension seems a little stiff and gives me that feeling that I may be starting to go too far. I know some will say "you can never go to far". Please be a little more thoughtful. When did your car start to take on more track car feel and lose some of it's "motoring" appeal?

I still have on my list a header, a full big brake kit, possibly a head?

How far have you gone and why did you stop modding etc?

 

Ask "El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini"

 

Those with modded MINIs (MCS mostly) eventually stop or at least slow down on upgrades when:
1. You've done nearly everything of what is offered online from Webbmotorsports.com or
2. You've run out of cash (due to conflicts with kids in college, your spouse, your pet, your house payments, your boat, your travel this year, your tuition, lack of luck winning it big in a lottery or similar game of chance, etc)
3. You've come to your senses and realize that you are now in a group of MINI owners that have spent well over $15K or $20+K worth of mods on a $25K car. (Hey, it's easy to do if you know where to buy stuff!)
4. You've had some bad out of warranty problems/issues during the time your warranty is still in effect. Adding more just makes things more unclear.
5. You've done all that you wanted to do and are very happy with how your MINI drives (but you are getting bored and want to sell it for the newest MINI model because of the new features of JCW kit offered-hence you don't want to continue to mod but rather to cut and sell it so you can "Start it over again").
6. You've been distracted by another event in your life like an emergency at home (natural disaster) or work or other health issue. Modding a MINI isn't as high a priority in the mix of life's demands.
7. You've had an accident (not your fault!) and your modded MINI will never be quite the same but you refuse to sell because you've grown accustomed to his/her "face".
8. You've gotten to the point where you did a really expensive big upgrade and "can't tell" any difference for the type of driving that you do.
9. Your tooth fillings hurt from being rattled really hard on the bumpy roads you drive on a daily basis or your upgraded stereo is not loud enough to hear without tremendous distortion over your really loud intake and header/no cat/exhaust system.
10. You realize that it's costly to keep buying certain wear items like track brake pads, rotors, race tires, or light wheels when they get spent or damaged through use.
11. You've snapped to your senses and realize that it is more important to attain superior driving skills that to own a MINI with superior mechanical upgrades. You learn this lesson when a stock MC beats the pants off your highly modded MCS at autocross or on the track- yes it does happen!
12. You've seen pictures of the latest and greatest new sports car for 2007 that costs $25K and you've just started the "savings fund" towards making that dream come true. (not to worry, you have a teenaged child ready to take over the MINI).

So-
When is the MINI not fun to drive anymore?
If the roads are less than smooth due to ruts. potholes, speed bumps, etc this would take the fun out of a race suspension alright. If you got dental work and became every sensitive to jarring rides then it might be too much to have a bumpy ride in a daily driver car.

Is it true you can "never go too far"?
Well no, you can go too far- just look at some of the track MINIs out there or the "Alpine" MINI. They are highly specialized MINIs and not for daily use.
The trick is to have a multipurpose MINI that is tricked out for your purposes but still civilized enough for daily use.

Is your MINI as described above "too modded for street use"?
This is a relative question based on what you want in a MINI.
Certainly you do not "need" many of the upgrades for driving on the street at posted speed limits. Many of the upgrades add to handling and power which are usually more than sufficient for street use when in stock form. The short answer is (IMHO) no. However you do not need to go as far as you have gotten to improve on street driving- it's all a matter of what you want in your ride.

When did your car start to take on more track car feel and lose some of it's "motoring" appeal?
A track feel that is very stiff and has an overly bumpy ride is great on the track at high speeds but isn't much fun whenever there is a road with more than one curb or speed bump. Track setup is based mostly on suspension upgrades (camber plates, coil overs or springs, rear control arms, front/rear sway bars, etc) and your alignment settings. Fortunately any modded suspension can be aligned in such a way to minimize a rough ride and still give reasonable handling- just don't get too extreme with the camber/toe settings.

Finally, motoring appeal is all in "YOUR" head. You decide what is important to you since you are paying the bills for your "modding habit". If you have a clear picture of what you want to do then you can do it all at once or slowly make the changes. For me the "process" of changing and learning along the way is the reason for modding. Every mod has a cost and benefit. If for you the cost is too high for the limited benefit then it's probably not going to be a worthwhile upgrade.

I still have on my list a header, a full big brake kit, possibly a head?
I'd suggest doing driving school three times before I'd do any of those three especially if you are doing street driving and not track events. A header isn't really going to do that much for the $1000 cost. A big brake kit looks really nice and works very well for high demand braking situations such as for high speed or long tracks. A ported and polished cylinder head isn't required for street use but does match many of the other upgrades you have and can help for track use(but then you've not included a schrick cam, larger or double intercooler, larger fuel injectors, ignition system upgrades, front camber plates, oil catch can, etc- the list never really ends )

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.


Mostly spending money that I can't detect a difference or turing it into a hard to sit in vehichle unless it is going fast for short periods. When I first put the springs and konis on I was bumpimg my head on the interstate. I dialed it down from there. I don't want to bump my head and not be able to dial down. I think about a race clutch that rattles and has a lot of pedal pressure = not fun for every day.

 

to me... the biggest evidence is when ur teeth filling falls off, or when you need to see a chiropractor for that excessive pain in the lower back!

also, when your eardrums can't take much more, when you got torque steer up your....., brake squeal like no tomorrow, clutch so heavy its a chore to lift,

but minihune nailed it right on the spot.... i've already set my own limit on mods... next year after a few more things im stopping... things like the exhaust and intake i dont even feel the difference aside from noise increase...

 

Usually you'll know you went too far after installing very lightweight flywheel and a heavy super clamping clutch.

 

...when you have a roll cage and run R-compounds on the street!

 

...when there is nothing left to buy or add.

 

I asked Randy Webb what to do next and he said you've done it.. nothing more to do that makes sence $$$ of HP.

Earl

 

i think minihune has hit it on the nose for everyone with just about every possible example

 

Maybe it's time to take the street car and turn in into an all-out race machine. Then you can buy a new street MINI and start all over again!

Only half joking here. I had a friend who used to race a Barracuda in the Trans Am series back in the early 70s. He had a street 'Cuda and a race 'Cuda. When it was time to upgrade one of the go-fast goodies on the race car, guess what he did with the old, obsolete go-fast goodie?

This also gives you an opportunity to spend all the money you could ever want on the race car! (Race car = a hole in the pavement into which one throws hundred-dollar bills.)

 

You'd better be at least half-joking. what a waste of $60,000...sort of

-Paul

 

A pure track MINI could easily run between $45K and $60+K.
It would not be built for comfort but for speed and "bat out of hell" handling on any track or surface.

I don't consider the money spent as a waste but an investment in an extreme experience. See if you can find a wheel to wheel SCCA driver to take out a highly modded MINI on a long track course. Go along with that driver and see what the performance envelope of the MINI is. It's a real eye opener!

Hopefully you'll be able to stand up when the ride is over.
It doesn't hurt to bring fresh underwear.

A pure "show car MINI" would also easily cost above $45K. Heavy customizing is time consuming and can also be expensive (except when you do it yourself- kinda fun!). Many times the show car MINI isn't that practical- Super audio/video, extremely large rims and wide tires, heavy weight appearance mods without extreme power mods to deal with the weight change, or race mods done for looks (having big brakes but only using them for street driving). The extreme appearance says it all. It makes a statement and allows the owner to express their desire to be "unique". For them, this is what it's all about.

And some of us don't want to have extra cars for these two very different approaches. We try to combine the best of both worlds and build a super MINI good for the track/show and still be a reasonably good daily driver.
Adjustability is key, you'd be best off being able to tune your ride just enough to keep those dental fillings in or not need hearing aids prematurely.
Oh yeah, and still keep the total bill at well under $40K!
Easier said than done!

 

I also spoke with Randy....I just wanted a ....second.....and third etc. opinion. The TB goes on Tuesday, we'll see what that brings. Then I'll make my decision on the header.

Thanks for the laughs guys

 

Oh crap...I'm only two steps away then Maybe not the roll bar, but R-compound for sure

 

LOL>.... I am NOT done yet!!!

 

I have power slots and 2500s on the front and I am starting to get into ABS action. I'm afraid a big brake kit will be coming

 

careful... its contagious

 

If you're hitting the ABS, you're already at the traction limit of your tires It's not bigger brakes you need but wider/stickier tires

 

You can never have too many mods for the street, but you can have some mods that make daily use of your MCS less comfortable and practical. I know my heim jointed control arms are not really good mods for the less than perfect roads I drive on. They chatter, and I'm sure that they are getting used up way to quickly, but I still love the positive feel they give to hard cornering and the look on people's faces when my car takes a ninety degree turn at twice the speed anyone else is.

 

I found that the best way to approach a restoration or mod project for cars involves the following:

1) Put some serious thought into how, exactly, you want the car to turn out in the long run:
2) Do your research on costs, repairs, parts, labor, etc. and write down the parts/estimated costs for all the mods you want;
3) Develop a budget for the above, with some kind of idea regarding how much you want to spend on the project that will not be recoverable (i.e., costs you won't get out of the car when it's sold);
4) Stick to the budget;
5) Enjoy the ride.

This is not easy to do, but experience has taught me that it will make your project, and your overall driving experience, a lot more fun in the end.