I am going to upgrade my brakes and would like to hear from you on which would be the better way to go.

I am considering the Powerslot rotors and whether or not to get them frozen. I was thinking of only getting the slotted for the fronts and regular ones for the rear.

And how about those Hawk ceramic pads for all corners?

I don't plan on doing many track days (maybe 1 or 2 in the next few years)

Thanks !

 

Geez......no one? Didn't know I was on everyone's ignore list. LOL

 

I've got the slotted ones in the front with the hawk pads, stock in back.

I think the pads helped a little bit over stock, but I can't really say that braking is that much better than it was with all stock parts. Brake dust is minimized though, so that is a good thing.

Apparently the frozen rotors last longer, but I haven't tried them yet.

At least you got one response.. . . .

I prefer to replace rotors whenever I replace pads, so I'd probably not spend the $$$ on the frozen rotors myself. . .

 

Just a suggestion, do a search there is much said about brake upgrades here is one for example....

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...=brake+upgrade

or...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...=brake+upgrade

Hope it helps...

 

1) Are your brakes fading? If yes, then do something if no.....

2) does the dust bother you, the stock pads have a lot of nice properties going for them. But they put out more dust than a sandstorm! If you don't have fade, and the dust bothers you, go to a kevlar based pad like the EBC green. And they're easier on the rotors.

If you want mildly improved brake performance, get the metal bushings from Helix or Tyrol Sport, and some SS lines, and some pads with the stock rotors, and some better fluid.

If you want the racer look, throw all that out, and get what looks good to you, and the decision won't really be based on braking performance, but on easthetics.

If you want better braking, and less unsprung weight, look at the TCE race set up. Lighter equipment, larger rotors, and better pads with SS lines. Best of all worlds.

If you're made of money, and want to "fill your rims" get the 13" plus rotors, but that way more than our cars need, and isn't the lightest set up, so you'll be over braked, and over weight, but it sure will look impressive.

The only reason I'm running the large rotors is I found a set up used, that works on stock wheels, and it only cost $400. But the TCE/Willwood set up is what I wanted, and it just cost more....

Matt

 

I have stock rotors with EBC Green pads, SS brakelines, Ate Blue brake fluid and brake stiffener kit. Stops much better with no fade and reduced dust. Works great for all but extended track days. Probably would get some fade on long runs.

 

I have the Hawk Ceramics all the way around. Very consistent braking. BTW, this is my front wheel with ten days worth of dust on it. Check my sig.

 

Dr O-- I am interested in better performance, but I really want to get rid of the dust and rotor "shavings" and protect my new wheels. The main reason I am considering the frozen ones is the better life they claim to get. I have looked at those posts, but was hoping someone would post with their experience with the frozen rotors. Do they really last that much longer? I haven't seen anyone post with their opinion on the Hawk ceramic pads (thanks Partsman !) either.

Thanks

 

I haven't dug enough into the cryo treating to know if it's science, or scientific BS..... Apexers' set up is an excellent way to get less dust, better braking, and enhanced rotor life. I went to the equivalent, and didn't have fade on a track day, but I don't brakes nearly as deep as many drivers (still tightening the nut behind the wheel... )

Matt

 

The "Frozen Rotors" are real, check out the website. Lots of racers swear by them. The treated rotors are harder thus, last longer (esp. with with aggressive track pads like Hawk Blues, etc.) and are less likely to warp under track conditions. On the other hand they cost about double stock rotors. For street use don't bother spending the extra $ $

 

I've used them. The jury is hung as to whether they're worth the money. For the street, I think you'd be wasting your money. I think they do have some benefit on track, but to be honest, I've managed to crack them as well. The purpose of Cryo, as has been mentioned here is to embue the rotors with the ability to remain more stable over a wider temperature range. In my experience, I haven't noticed any difference in the wear, in the sense of shedding material (as I never have a problem with that at all). The key issue is in the face of 600+ degree rotor temps they seem to resist cracking a little better. OTOH, doing a real cool down lap without touching the brakes and ABOVE ALL roll to a stop without using the brakes is still a necessity. If you must use the brakes make sure your roll the car a foot or two after a stop (and of course never apply the handbrake). This is because the pads absorb a lot of heat and if left in contact with the rotor will cause burn spots and cracking as a result.

 

Dr. O great info for scott's sake and mine!

 

Thanks for the comments all. I am still considering the frozen rotors simply as a way to extend the life of the rotors with the Hawk ceramics. Does anyone have any thoughts on if the life expectancy would be about the same? Again this would be mainly for aggressive street driving.

 

I like the stopping power of the slotted/Ferodo combination.

I hate the incredible amount of dust (on the rears only???) and the sqwealling has me driving the car less around town. I didn't think that the noise would be that bad but it is .

I'm going to run the stock pads around town and change to the Ferodo's only when I go to the track. That's on the front. The rear pads are coming off forever.

Addition of SS lines must happen as well, especially if you are going to track or autoX

My .02cent worth.

 

from a metallurgical standpoint, I can't see where making a rotor cold will do anything to extend the life. cast iron is in a meta-stable phase at anything below ~700 C (actually 727 C); and most of the properties are created by the cooling rate or by heat treatment. the mechanical properties of cast iron don't really start to deteriorate until it has been heated to 500 C, so unless you are subjecting your rotors to temps in this range, pretty much any cast iron that has been heat treated properly will last as long as the next that has been treated the same.

 

Basically the cryo treatment is kind of like a case hardening.

But I'd have to read more into it, as getting the suckers hot would seem to be the way to undo it....

Matt

 

Then why are some rotors "harder/longer lasting" than others? Iron content, heat treatment, some other process?

I have read posts about how "soft" the stock rotors are and want something that will last a bit longer and not cause so much dust on the wheels.

 

when I was running EBC greens, you can't see much wear on the rotors at all. The cryo is supposed to reduce wear, but I have no first hand experience.

Matt

 

Actually, the rotors aren't what causes the dust, its the brake pads.
EBC Green pads are very rotor friendly, very low dust and stop better than the OEM pads. The "Greens" are great for everyday driving and autoX. There are better pads for track but, now comes the dust and rotor wear.

 

I realize it is mainly the pads, but I read a post somewhere ( can't remember where) from someone who replaced both sets of pads on 2 MINI's (his and his wifes) and the rotors on his MINI. After a fairly short period of time he notice a lot more dust on the wifes car than on his. He found out from a reliable source (MINI service I think) that the stock rotors are quite a bit softer than most replacements are.

Looks like I am going to get the Powerslots and Hawk ceramic pads all the way around. I will let you all know how they turn out.

 

just my 2 cents worth iwent with the stop-tech stage 2 brake kit front and rear slotted rotors the frozen also installed the brass caliper bushings.the kit was 600.00 for ft and rear rotors and pads and ss brake lines and motol brake fluid.i am very satisfied with this set up ...... no track days yet but very aggressive street driving with no fade at all....the downside it does create a lot of brake dust.......

 

just a couple of links for those who want to read more on cryo-treatment:
http://www.finishing.com/340/78.shtml
http://lennon.pub.csufresno.edu/~rlk16/cryo.html

and just for my final $0.02...if you read these things, they point to the creation of martensite as the desired crystalline structure. the problem with this is that martensite is only considered semi-stable as it remains below 150C. it breaks down into iron and cementite over time, with elevated temperatures. it also has a very "needle" like structure, which makes it very succeptible(sp?) to fatigue wear, this will show rather quickly if there are any thin sections on the rotors(especially if they are in the "neck" area-where the hat connects to the plates).

 

The MOST important thing is the cooling rate, this controls the diffusion rate of atoms within the solid solution; but what makes them harder/longer lasting, is the alloy content and the grade of the material. typically a structure with an increase in the pearlite structure will have the best wear & abrasion resistance.
you should also consider what properties you are giving up: vibration damping? corrosion resistance (more carbon, means more graphite, means faster rusting)? thermal conductivity?
what trade-offs are you willing to make?

 

Good choice