i drive a 2005 MCS. i was at the phil whicks driving school a couple weeks ago with my all season runflats and had problems with the handleing. my friends at stlmini told me to got track tires for using on the track. what would you recomend for track tires????

 

We need some background info.

What rims do you have for the track tires? Or are you getting new rims to go with the track tires and keeping your other wheels for street use (the usual solution)?

What suspension do you have? If you have stock suspension then you have stock alignment which will have insufficient negative camber especially in the front to allow for enough traction in corners on the track. The stock alignment when run with track tires will result in an increased wear rate on the front tires when used at track speeds especially when cornering.

What is your budget and how many track events are you planning for in 12 months?

Best person to talk to would be Alex@tirerack.com.

For street legal tires you can use on the track that are not too expensive check out:
Falken Azenis Rt-215 (older model, cheaper, hard to find)
Falken Azenis Rt-615 (current model, costs more)
Hankook ventus Rs2 Z212
These allow you to drive to the track and not have to change tires. They perform well but not to the level of a competition track tire.

If you have a larger budget then consider
Toyo Ra-1
Michelin Pilot sport cup (expensive)

Good track only tires (not for road use)
Kumho Victoracer V700 (can be driven a little on the road- more durable)
Kumho V700
Kumho V710 (might wear out in one track day!)
Avon Tech R
Hoosiers

 

I think the answer to this question depends on what your goals are for yourself at track events and how you plan to use your car. Tire selection is one of the most important choices an owner makes, so consider it carefully. Select a tire that is consistent with your intended uses. Will you purchase a second set of wheels and mount dedicated track tires? Or will you be using the same tires and wheels at the track that you use every day? How often will you be doing track days? When you do a track day, are you simply trying to improve your driving skills, or are you trying to get the last few seconds off your lap times?

Your A/S Runflats are definitely out of their element at the track, but that doesn't mean you need to replace them with dedicated R-Compound track tires. For the first 10 track weekends, I think it's beneficial to stay on street tires, not R-Compound tires. They wear better and require smoothness and discipline that track tires may not. They are an opportunity to build on the driver's skill. Later you can step up to track tires and amaze your friends with your "sudden" improvement as you drive by them.

So stay on your current tires as long as you can stand it. Then move on to a stickier street tire. They're nice for everyday tires anyway, since you never know when a situation may arise requiring exceptional performance, so to speak. The temptation to purchase performance is very strong indeed, but if you invest the same money in additional driving events, you make the driver faster, not just the car.

Whatever your choice, do a few more schools. You are already on the right track.

 

Ya know, that is really good advice!

In addition, out of the box, the Mini is very good handling-wise, it would be interesting to know what is meant by "handling problems." What you may need is a better rear sway bar, not tires.

 

wider tires are more "grippy", you can go as wide as 215 for 16 and 17" wheels

Usual side wall choice is 45, I have 2 set-ups:

215-40-17 (track) Bridgestone Pole position S03 and 215-45-17 (street) Pirelli P-Zero Nero

I prefer the smoother feel of the 215-45-17s and will replace my track tires when they wear out with taller 45 side wall

 

I'd speculate that the handling problem was understeer, which as you pointed out, would be greatly improved with the addition of a stiffer rear swaybar.

 

If you're set on buying something new, I would definitely recommend going through at least one set of well-suited street tires before making the jump to R compounds.

I haven't run the new Azenis (615) on track, but the old model (215) was the best HPDE tire out there.

Race tires will make you faster in the short-run, but staying on street tires for a while will aid the learning process and make you faster in the end - and save you some money in the process.

 

i wonder sometimes whether the rt215 or the new rt615 would last on the track.... they wear pretty fast dont they?

i am running re750s on track and street and ive experienced pretty bad chucking even in the rears... so naturally im probably swapping to rt215 or 615 when i get them over with, the problem is i wonder how much street mileage will i get or should i just stick with something even higher performance like a toyo t1r and last me a few more track days and last me a few more miles on the street... even tho the t1r are more expensive...

anyone have hands on experience with rt215 or 615 on the track and street and can tell me how much miles one can get out of them?

i have about 15,000km on my 750 and my fronts are getting pretty close to the wear bars.... im getting them rotated tomorrow but i can tell already they wont last another summer

 

Getting good wear out of track tires is a challenge. It's made more difficult if the tires are also used everyday. Here's why: Chunking is caused by excessive heat buildup, which usually results from tread squirm caused by too much tread depth. We want a lot of tread depth on tires that will be used in rain. But on the track, in the dry, that "good quality" can actually cause damage and excessive wear. That's why dedicated track tires are either cast with much less tread depth (4/32" - 6/32") or shaved to a similar depth.

It's not intuitive, but shaving track tires can in many cases help them to last longer. They don't overheat, so they don't chunk. That irregular wear pattern reduces their effectiveness and can make them too noisy for street use. Less tread squirm also makes them more responsive and grippy. As I said, it is counter-intuitive, but shaving track tires is a good approach.

Along those same lines, the rule of thumb for when a tire needs to be replaced is based largely on its ability to resist hydroplaning. For a (dry) track tire, it's the opposite. When a street tire approaches the wear bars its just getting good. Don't run it until the cords are showing, but don't be too quick to discard it either.

If you're going to stay on street tires, a good approach might be to get a spare set of wheels and mount new tires on them. Run the new tires on the street and on track if it rains. Run the worn tires on the track when it's dry. When the track set needs to be replaced, rotate the other everyday set into track use and replace them with fresh tires for everyday use. Or just have a set reserved for track use and understand that they're going to wear quickly.

Tire rotation at the track is also an important technique. on a road course that is run clockwise, you're going to turn right more than left. And your left front tire is probably going to wear more quickly than the others. By using same size tires/wheels on all four corners, many tires can be successfully rotated to even out wear by ignoring the specified direction. [Huge warning: Never operate directional tires in the wrong direction if the pavement is wet. You'll be inducing hydroplaning. ]

Of course, there are other factors. Alignment (camber & toe), spring rate, roll rate, and driving style all come into play. I already wrote a novel, so I'm going to pass on those topics for now.