Hi All,

I'm starting the wheel buying decision process for an 06 S. I really want the RBs because of the look. But they are 3.6 lbs heavier (per wheel) than another option and I keep hearing about how much difference that makes to the liveliness of the car. Does anyone know if that difference will be truly noticeable in the real world?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.
mandd

 

Yes, big time. I have stock 17s on my MCS, and the only time I put them on is if I'm not wanting to eat up all the tread on my track/street tires. I hate putting on my stock wheels, they're heavy and you can feel it immediately when you turn the wheel.

Then switch to my forged Volks, and you really can feel how much lighter and effortless it takes to turn the steering wheel. Don't do it! You should go lighter, not heavier!

 

Does anyone know how much these wheels weigh? They are the 8 spoke rib wheel.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...ps1223bf02.jpg

 

On the street, I don't notice the difference in wheel weights, even if my street wheels are 10lb per corner heavier. The difference in tires is what I notice, the street tires are much more comfortable and quiet.

 

That wheel is-
R115 Rib Spoke 16x6.5" et48 which was standard with runflats on the 2010-11 MCS, I don't see a weight but it is likely it is between 19 and 21 lbs each.

The lightest OEM 16" wheels are-
R84 X-lyte 17.6 lbs
R102 S-Winder 17.4 lbs

For the OP,

A difference of about 3 lbs is not bad but consider the entire weight of the wheel/tire package is usually more important.

For example tire weights do vary along with the tread rubber compound and tread design. A tire that has soft rubber and grips the road more easily like a Max or Extreme Summer tire is going to allow for faster acceleration and better braking and cornering than a tire designed for better mpg and less rolling resistance.

A heavy runflat tire is going to feel sluggish and heavy and will reduce performance more than a slightly heavier wheel. Your brakes and engine have to do more work to start moving and to stop moving.

If you drive the speed limit, accelerate and brake smoothly and sanely and are not an aggressive driver then 3 lbs wheel weight will not be a major problem.

For those drivers that want the best performance reducing weight in the tire and wheel will help a lot.

What wheel size and specific tire were you considering?

Searching tirerack.com in the upgrade garage there are many wheels in various sizes that are similar to the BBS RB wheel.

For example (for those on a budget)-
Some wheels look more RG than RB



Sport Edition CE Silver painted or Bright Satin with Machined Lip
15x6.5" et40 17lbs, $85-88 each, use with 195/60-15 or 205/55-15
16x7.5" et40 20.2 lbs, $93-95 each, use with 205/50-16 or 205/55-16
17x7.5" et40 22.6 lbs, $103-105 each, use with 205/45-17 or 215/45-17


Sport Edition SE-16 Silver Painted
15x6.5" et38 15.2 lbs, $99 each, avail. 7/12/13


Sport Tuning T6 Machined with Black Accent
15x6.5" et40 17.1 lbs, $85 each
16x7.5" et40 20 lbs, $94 each
17x7.5" et40 22.7 lbs, $106 each


ASA AR1 Silver or Black with Machined Lip
16x7" et38 17.6 to 18.6 lbs, $120 each
17x7" et42 20.7 lbs, $136 each

 

if you own these wheels invest in luglocks as these are popular with honda theives since the bolt pattern is the same(4x100)

 

Thanks for the great reply. I should have been more clear. By RB I meant the Rota RB from fastmini.net (minilite/panasport copy) They are listed at 16.2 lbs for 16x7 ET+40. Tirerack has the Kosei K4R that is 12.8 (16x6.5). I do plan to run aggressive street tires. I was looking at the RE-11A, but its 27 lb weight has me leaning toward the Toyo R1R at 22. As for size, here's another question for you. Based on what I can tell on an '06 S with stock suspension and a 16x7 +40 wheel, I'll get some rubbing in the rear. So I'm thinking that since understeer is the devil, I would try 225 50s in the front and 205 55s in the the rear. I'm hoping that would balance the handling some and sneak me past the rubbing issue.
Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone for sharing ideas. Keep 'em coming!
mandd

 

OK on the Rota RB wheels which come in various finishes, the Kosei K4R only come in Grey finish if that matters. The K4R is 6.5" wide and light at under 13 lbs. The RB at 7" wide will work better with 225/50-16 tires for more tire treadpatch and traction.

If grip is your main concern I think you can consider-
Rota RB in 16x7" et40 with
BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (Extreme Summer tire)
225/50-16 fits rims 6-8" wide, perfect for 7" rim, 23 lbs, $143 each
200 treadwear for both front and rear so you can rotate the tires for better wear. Fronts always wear out faster than rears. A much better tire than the Toyo R1R.

The other tire to consider if you are on a budget is-
Hankook RS-3
225/50-16 $112 each closeout at tirerack.com, 24 lbs each, 140 treadwear

 

If grip is your main concern I think you can consider-
Rota RB in 16x7" et40 with
BF Goodrich g-Force Rival (Extreme Summer tire)
225/50-16 fits rims 6-8" wide, perfect for 7" rim, 23 lbs, $143 each
200 treadwear for both front and rear so you can rotate the tires for better wear. Fronts always wear out faster than rears. A much better tire than the Toyo R1R.

The other tire to consider if you are on a budget is-
Hankook RS-3
225/50-16 $112 each closeout at tirerack.com, 24 lbs each, 140 treadwear[/QUOTE]

I considered the Rival, but I was concerned about a couple of things with them. One is that because these are going to be daily driver tires in Minnesota (not in winter, of course) they will have to deal with rain on a regular basis. The Rivals don't *look* like they would deal with rain well at all. The other thing is that they are wide for their size. (according to tirerack specs). In my research I found that another member had this size in the RS3 and he had quite a bit of rubbing in the rear--through the plastic and against the sheet metal. That's why I came up with the idea of the reverse stagger set up. And the Rivals don't come in the 205/55 16 size.

You imply that the R1R is not a good tire. Could you elaborate?
I should point out that I guess ultimate grip doesn't matter so much to me. I want a decently sticky tire, but responsiveness, feel and breakaway characteristics are all more important that ultimate grip. And...confession time...I have to admit that looks are important too. I just don't want something like the Michelin PSS, ContinSportContact 2/3/5, Goodyear F1 Assymetrico, etc. They are all looking more and more like Uniroyal touring tires. No fun!

And finally, if I may digress and pick your brain on something else. Judging by your signature, you have a lot of experience going around corners. How do you stay in the seat? I'm normal (not thin) and find they are waaaay to wide to hold me in.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts.
mandd

 

For the Rival, for dry grip and handling especially at the limit there is no better current tire hands down. In the wet, you'd have to slow down, I think it can handle light rain but not heavy rain, risk of hydroplaning likely.

Some articles about top Extreme Summer tires-
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...-tires-part-1/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...-tires-part-2/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/top-tires/
Note that these tires including the R1R wear very quickly

In the wet-
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...splish-splash/

For an Extreme Summer tire that can handle the rain I would look at-

Dunlop Direzza ZII (Extreme Summer tire) 200 treadwear
205/55-16 $140 each, 22 lbs
225/45-16 $138 each, 23 lbs., 23.9" tire diameter
225/50-16 $145 each, 24 lbs.
225/45-16 would be aggressive looking and fit without rubbing.
I have seen Direzza ZII perform on a very wet autocross course and no other tire could keep up with it. In the dry it's very good.

Toyo R1R is not a bad tire, it is simply a dated design that goes back to 2008 and it shows it's age compared to the current releases from the competition. At one time it was the preferred Extreme tire but honestly out of 80+ drivers at the events I go to I don't ever see it.
see
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...xes-r1r-page-4

Another Extreme Summer tire good in the wet or dry-

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 180 treadwear
205/55-16 $158 each, 21 lbs.
225/50-16 $173 each, 23 lbs.

Good in Dry but not sure in wet-

Hankook Ventus R-S3
205/55-16 $131 each, 22 lbs., 140 or 200 treadwear
225/50-16 $112 each closeout at tirerack, 24 lbs., 140 treadwear
Note Kumho XS good in dry but not as good in wet.
see
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...csta-xs-page-9

Tread looks-
If you care about how you look then you can consider:

BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 (Ultra High Performance Summer tire)
It's a popular tire for car shows and it's decent enough on the street.
225/45-16 $141 each, 300 treadwear, fits rims 7-8.5" wide, 23 lbs, 23.7" tire diameter is small but will give lots of clearance for the wider than stock tire.
Downside is noise and the stiff 45 series sidewall. OK handling in wet.
see
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...y.jsp?type=UHP

In the same class the best tire for wet performance is-

Michelin Pilot PE2 240 treadwear
205/55-16 $154 each, fits 5.5-7.5" rims, 6.5" perfect, 24.9" tire diam. 21 lbs
225/50-16 $165 each, fits 6-8" rims, 7" perfect, 24.9" tire diam. 22 lbs
Tirerack test results-
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=104
The PE2 is a longtime favorite street tire for both ride quality and handling in both dry or wet. 205/55-16 offers lower price, less weight, slightly better ride on the street. 205/50-16 offers better fit on 7" rim, stiffer 50 series sidewall for more responsive handling.

In Max Summer tires (good for both dry and wet but don't wear out as fast as Extreme Summer tires).-


Continental ExtremeContact DW 340 treadwear
205/55-16 $96 each, 19 lbs., Very low weight and budget priced
225/50-16 $109 each, 21 lbs
Tirerack test result-
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=148
Check handling dry vs wet in this test.


Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position 280 treadwear
205/55-16 $102 each special at tirerack, 24 lbs

For tires not at tirerack,

Nitto Neo Gen (Ultra High Performance All Season tire), 280 treadwear
205/50-16 about $116 each
tire review of Neo Gen-
http://tirereviewsandmore.com/nitto-...zr-reviews.php


Falken FK-452 Max Performance Summer tire, 300 treadwear
205/50-16 $110 each, may be in low stock
225/45-16 $134 each, may be in low stock
225/50-16 $115 each

For keeping me in place when I drive, I have used four point Schroth quick fit race harnesses and CG lock with OEM belts. If you drive so fast you are moving in your seat you might want race harnesses but you are tied down and won't easily be able to look back over your shoulder, not the greatest if you are in heavy traffic.


http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html
I think this is OK, it works best if there is only one driver and you can leave the lock on the belt. If you have multiple drivers you need to take it off and readjust it each time. This works with any car and any belt.


Schroth four point harness in a MINI
More costly, uses normal lap belt and rear lap bolt points. Easy to remove and use OEM belt, about $235 each, comes in various colors. Has optional shoulder pads.

 

With the Street (Stock) reorg on the horizon, I am considering taking advantage of the pending +/-1" wheel diameter allowance and running 15x6.5" wheels with the 205/50/15 Rival instead of the 205/50/16 ZII I was planning to replace my two season old Z1's after the season ends in late October.


Current
205/50/16 ZII
16x6.5
Sect. Width 8.4
Tread Width 7.5


Option 1
205/50/15 Rival
15x5.5
Section Width 8.0
Tread Width 7.4

Option 2
205/50/15 Rival
15x6.5
Section Width 8.4
Tread Width 7.8

Is .3" or .4" or tread width for the 205 Rival on the 6.5" wheel going to be that much more beneficial? Thoughts?

 

Your question is off topic for this thread.
You can get more response by posting in the Forum for Autocrossing Stock/Street class.

To answer on topic, consider the weight of the 15x6.5" wheel vs OEM 7 hole wheels which are about 12 lbs each.

Another option for you is 16x7" wheels and stay with 16" tire sizes which for the BF Goodrich Rival is not as good as the sizes for 15".

Using 15x6.5" you can use either 205/50-15 or 225/45-15 with the Rival.

If you choose 15x6.5 you will need an offset that is not too aggressive.
A simple search finds that wheels of this size in 4x100 bolt pattern run offsets of about 35, 38, and 40mm. Most weigh up to 16 lbs each.
You can check tirerack.com as well.

If you want to stick with 205/50-15 then 15x6.5" is a better fit than using a 15x5.5" rim. You would get better use of the tire, it's not just the difference in treadwidth and section width measurement. The function of the tire on a wheel that fits optimally is better.