Hello, I have a 2004 MCS, and I have some questions about brakes in general. I have recently changed all my brake pads, and after a month or two, i noticed annoying brakes squeaking every time I brake, and i can hear another noise like my rotors are warped. I have installed Mintex Red Box brake pads, and my mechanic said that any aftermarket pads are going to make noise. He said that you have to get OEM ones to have the lowest sound possible. Is that true? Also, he said that I have a noise where the pads is hitting my rotors (Not pressing on brakes) when the car is moving at a slow speed because there is a thick part of the rotors and a thin side. He said that whenever my pads hit the thick side of the rotors, it will make that noise because something about the rotors are not fully flat or something. Should i change my rotors? To which ones? And how do I remove the squeaking noise, or is it tru that i cant because I don't have OEM? He also said that getting new front rotors will reduce both noises, but it will still result in some noise, but only some times instead of all the time i apply the brakes. HELP! Thanks!

 

Soft OEM pad compounds are a compromise to reduce noise, increase bite, etc.
Various aftermarket pads have different noise and performance characteristics. Typically, the "squeek" can be alleviated by adding anti-squeal compound to the back of the brake pads (surface between the pads and the calipers - NOT the side that touches the rotors) during assembly. The "rubbing" sound probably indicates some combination of uneven rotor wear / deposits / possible warping. You can have the rotors turned on a rotor lathe to ensure that they're smooth and flat - that helps. The stock rotors are relatively thin to begin with - so removing much material will make them even thinner and more prone to warping. Typically MINI recommends you replace pads and rotors as a set.

 

Your driving style and needs dictate the type/brand of brake pads you need. The mini comes with pads good for a daily driver, driven in a normal way. They do make a ton of dust, but other options are avalable to provide oem'ish performance, with less dust.
The mintex-redbox pads, are, I believe, the performance minitex pads, aimed at the "performance" driver, and operate at a higher temp optimiumly than the stock. Given a few miles they may quiet down a but once they "bed" in, but they will never be quiet as stock (or stock equivelents).
From the mechanics description, it sounds like the rotors are warped...common as rotors get thin, and heat up, and cool off. Usually warped rotors are pretty good cold, but can cause some major vibration when applied hot...both through the steering wheel and the pedal. Modern rotors are so thin, the one real option is replacement. Depending on your driving style, an oem or oem style rotor is most likely fine(buy a good quality brand, the cheapest tend to warp when new)....dimples, holes, or slots are mostly for looks, and usually add noise to the breaking system.

 

PS...there are non-oem brake compotents that do not "squeak"...it is just about picking the correct products to do the job...and when new pads are installed, it is strongly reccomended that new rotors be us used, or the old ones be turned on a lathe...tho make them flat and true. Sometimes is the rotor is in great shape (not common) you can get away with a light sanding. The lathe, or getting the rotor re-surfaced, get rid of the ridge that forms around the edge of the rotor....from the rotor wearing....when the new pads rub on this ridge, noise is made.....just popping new pads on old, groved rotors is asking for noise.

 

Best to measure the rotors before adding new pads and it sounds like they may have been ready for the dump before adding new pads.

If wallet permits, find yourself a set of front 2nd Gen Calipers and rotors from an R56. It is the same as the 1st Gen JCW front Calipers only not painted red. It's an awesome brake set up, and anyone with a MINI who has driven mine always comments about the braking power. Fast to grab and ton in reserve. And that is with stock pads.....

 

That is a great money saving tip...you end up with the same thing as the JCW brake package on a gen1 mini for not much more than a brake job with new rotors...I'd do it in s hearbeat, but I would need new rims.
If I remember right, all the 17's fit the JCW brakes, but only one or two versions of the 16's, and none of the 15's had clearance between the rotors and the caliper.

 

What rims do you have Tim ? I thought they were S lites ?

 

Nawww....no s-heavies for me....I've got the r84 x-lite...one of the lighter rim oem rims avalable...but I cheaped out and got 15' snows...so I would need 2 sets of rims/tires!!
The roads in NH...the frost heaves mostly, are not super condusive to running a 17' with a low profile.

 

ferodo ds2500 brake pads work great with stock 03 calipers, just very dirty. No squeek, and they stop awsome even at the track. Work real well cold through hot. Last a long time too.

 

squeeking....... thats nothing. I run carbotech XP-16's race pads all around. sound like a bus stoping untill they get hot and...they need to stay hot. you gotta have fun

 

EBC ultmates are a pretty good oem equivelants, but hard to find. Most folks on forums like this tend to gravitate to more agressive or spirited driving style...hense the hard-core noisy brakes used by some folks...noisy cold...but they improve as they get hot!!
A good daily driver pad from most reports are the EBC green's, less dusty than stock, and a bit more grippy, and a bit better heat resistance I think...but not a track pad...
A quick search will yeild thousands of threads on this..
Just remember...brakes a compermises....quiet is usually a shorter life, cooler running pad, with less resistance to fade as they heat up...good for stopping when cold...for the highway/dailydriver.
Race/track pads... Tend to be unfreindly with rotor wear...are noisy cold...sometimes when warm too...are sub-par performance wise till used a couple times...then used ocassionaly to keep warm...and then perform nicely. Many folks change to different pads for track/race day, so they can have quiet, cold grippy pads to use in traffic.

 

You have a "hard" pad and they are going to make noise when cold. You might get lucky and work the brakes hard and have quiet brakes for a period of time, but easy street driving is going to result in squeaking brakes.

The solution is a different pad. Call Carbotech and tell them about your driving style and the can probably provide a good recommendation. They make some decent street pads that don't put out a lot of dust and the softer ones are quiet too. I use their XP12 & XP10 pads on the Corvette on track. Probably their 1521 compound would suit your needs:

http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp

Don't buy into "warped rotors" explanation. Changing out rotors won't do anything as far as noise goes. Stoptech has a copy of a white paper written by Carrol Smith which explains the myth of warped rotors titled:

The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

 

Hello,
Thank you guys for all your responses. I am planning to change all my rotors, but i dont know if i should. I want your opinion on this. Since i get a rubbing sound when the brake pads hit a certain spot of the rotors at speed from 0-15, and my mechanic says that it is because there is a thick side and a thin side of my rotors, should i change all my rotors because that can maybe cause of uneven brake pad wear? My mechanic says that my braking is perfect for safety, but if it is annoying you, thats a different story. He also said that changing your rotors can also cut the squeaking noise down. So, i was wondering should i change all my rotors. If so, i was deciding between, TMS Crossed Drilled Rotors and Mini Coopers OEM? I like the Tuner Motor Sport ones because they look cool and it can help with braking, but i might be wrong. Which one would you recommend getting and why? What are the pros and cons for both rotors? Which ones will last longer and less likely to warp? I dont race on tracks, im just a daily driver. If i do change all my rotors, will it really cut down the squeaking and the weird noise of the pads hitting the rotors when driving at low speeds? I really need as much help, because i am so annoyed of the noises and i want my brake pads to last long since they are new. Thanks ALOT!

 

Get holes, slots, grooves, zinc plating or whatever makes you happy or looks cool. As far as performance or longevity, none of these will make much difference. There are a lot of unsubstantiated claims when it comes to brake parts. The holes will tend to act like a cheese grater on your pads.

If you hear noise from the rotors at low speeds it is most likely from pad deposits. The real problem is with the pad material and it will probably come back with new rotors of any description. You should also be able to feel pulsing in the brake pedal when doing light braking from moderate speeds.

The cheapest fix is to clean the rotors. Wet them down and go away for an hour or two. That will give the rotor a fine rust film. With the car jacked up and the wheel off, turn the rotor and you should be able to see and hear the high spot when it goes under the pad. Next, use Scotch-Brite, sandpaper or similar abrasive to remove the pad deposits.

I have had the problem you describe with Hawk DTC-70 pads, except it was so bad that the car shook violently when braking. The deposit was enough that I could remove it with the end of a flat file, using it like a scraper. Cleaning the residue was enough to get 4 laps in at Road America before having to get off and clean the front rotors again.

Once it gets started, it's almost impossible to stop.

I would change out pads. Whatever brand they are, they don't work with your driving style.

 

@56 Blue:
What is the cause of brake pad deposits? What will happen if i just leave it the way it is, will it make my brake pads wear down unevenly? How can i tell if my rotors are still good, because if it is still really good, i might just switch out the pads like you said? If so, what pads would you recommend? EBC Ulti....

 

Thanks

 

Brake pads are a witches brew of metal bits, ceramics and who knows what else. The pad deposits can be metal or organic bits fused to the surface from the heat of braking. On the street you could make a panic stop from 50 and leave your foot on the brake after stopping. There are probably a lot of variables that can contribute.

If you do nothing, you might have squeeking brakes and maybe a pulsing pedal. Turn up the radio louder and use the brakes harder.

You pads won't wear unevenly due to rotor high spots....

Your rotors are fine as long as you can get rid of the high spots somehow. If it really bugs you and you can't scrape/sand the high spots off, then new rotors are in order. Buy the cheap ones from NAPA or RockAuto.com That's what I use on the Corvette. $30 - $35 each and the last just as long as the AC Delco, Brembo etc. rotors. BPI makes all the Raybestos, AC Delco, etc. rotors. Same rotor, different box, different price.

I'm going to assume that your car is street driven and that your hardest decelleration will be laying into the brakes medium hard at 100 MPH once in a blue moon.

If that is true, a ceramic pad might be the best deal. C5 Corvette guys love them becausue they are good for one hard stop, don't squeal and most important to them, the pads don't produce a lot of black brake dust.

Raybestos and others make ceramic pads. Carbotech pads are ceramic based.

The really cheap organic pads might work great for you too. I don't know much about EBC or Ultimate

Here is a link to Tire Rack website showing lots of ceramic pads to choose from, as well as Centric rotors for cheap.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...t+After+5%2F06

In order:

1. Ignore noise.
2. Try to clean up rotors and see if problem goes away.
3. Replace pads. New pads might remove old material.
4. Replace rotors.

This is picture of bad rotor. Pretty much anything else works:

 

@56 Blue

Thank you for the advice. As far as the picture you provided a bad rotor, mine dont look nothing like that. When you told me about cleaning the rotors with water and spin the wheels to look where the spot the pads make contact with the rotors, i have done that already. I dont really get about the par of removing the noise. Does it go away later without using sandpaper to make it even? I dont have pulsing when i apply the brakes. SO would it be fine with just leaving it as if even if the uneven rotor thicknes doesnt go away?

I dont really get the part when you say you panic stop while apply the brakes med. hard from 50 mph and you said that it can lead to alot of variables. And when you said if i dont do nothing. What you mean dont do nothing and stuff about stopping?

THank you very much for the help.

 

That cracked rotor is an extreme example of racing abuse. My point is that if you had a huge crack in your rotor, you would definitely need to replace it. If you don't have a huge crack in your rotor, then the decision to replace it is up to you.

If you don't feel pulsation in the pedal, then you probably don't have high spots on your rotors. I'm not sure why you have noise at low speeds. Check for something that rubs on the wheel, rotor or whatever.

 

Thanks, that was a interesting article.