correct.

so if the rear feels loose, i would go less stiff on that 22mm rear bar. have you called brian (cor blmy)? i betcha he could figure it out for ya. honestly, i haven't experienced the "mushy" / "floppy" feeling you have encountered (and i've pushed it pretty hard on autocross, track, and spirited driving since install). let us know what the problem and fix were.

 

Yeah I'd go for less stiff on that bar, and fine tune it with the coilover settings

The eibach bars i have are 25mm front and 19mm rear. Your 22m rear only must have a massive effect! That and the fact the camber is same rear as front.

Think I'm going to go for 1.5 front 1.0 rear now.

 

Vernon are you on the street commuting / driving spirited / track / auto x ...when your "flopping around"

Is it Flopping around or starting to come around / tail steer ?
There is a very different feel for the 2

Lots of things need to be looked at as a unit but assuming all is constant...

If street you probably have to much rear bar.
22mm is a big bar (what is up front ?)

Driving spirited ... If just starting to tail steer. ..stay on the gas and use it !
...thats how I like it BUT!!!! be careful !!! in a panic turn this will still be there.
Probably not the everyday set up ...good for a weekend FUN TOY

Track ... I need a lot more info on skill , tires, and the track itself ...and how YOU like to drive.

Auto x ... go stiffer, air up and use that and the gas pedal

Once you get things sorted out you will have 2 or 3 "base settings"

I have often been asked why I stop on the side of the road ...well I play with the setting a lot.
often too much ...LOL

Keep your variables to a minimum.
One thing I found doing auto x and on the track is that I was usually the BIGGEST variable.
In stead of over adjusting sometimes it is better to know that the setup isnt perfgect BUT at least you know what it is going to go.

ALWAYS A CROMPROMISE

Happy to help if I can

 

ok first off I wanna say thanks for all the help over and over again on this thread from all you guys. NAM really is a great place to talk about all the great things that make up these cars! When I originally installed my sway bar I had a stock suspension and set the bar on full stiff. During braking in a turn there was a lot of oversteer. So much that I almost lost it one night on a turn. So when I added the coilovers, I figured with the stiffer suspension and added adjustments to camber I could back off the rear bar. Well let's face it I should have backed it off before the coilovers!!! So I set the bar to the middle. I'm still running the factory front bar.
I've been thinking about what I said earlier today and maybe I worded it incorrectly and at the same time confused myself!!! I know that understeer means the front end "pushes" or wants to continue going straight when the wheel is turned, and oversteer is when the rear end turns more than the front causing you to counter steer to straighten back out. So what's been happening lately is this. Now i've only experienced this at slower speeds like 30 to 40 no more than that. I'll take a turn at around those speeds and although the rear does seem to slide I think its only happening after the front has slid. What I'm trying to say is I'll turn the wheel and it pushes slightly but then once the front grips the rear tends to slide back into place. I think I'm suffering understeer though as the front end does seem to push more than the rear spinning on me. The other thing is, maybe its my imagination, but since its gotten cooler here in NY my Falken Azenis seem to do this symptom more when I first start driving then when I get home from work which is about an hour later. Maybe this is just my tires needing to get "warmed" up? Also seems to do this more on concrete roads than ashpalt roads. As far as track/autocrosses go unfortunately I have zero experiences with both

Steve

 

Well, for sure your tires need some time to warm up, but I don't think that's the biggest problem (although, it can be a problem). If, as you say, you seem to suffer from understeer first, and then oversteer, I think you could go two ways:

1) Make the rear bar stiffer, but this may cause you to have oversteer instead. You should try and see how you feel it.

2) Since the problem is happening at slow speeds, you may want to give the front a bit less camber so you'll have more tire in contact with the road, and this might increase the front grip, reducing the understeer. Of course, if you do that, you're likely to feel more understeer at high speeds because it is at high speed turns that a lot of camber comes handy, letting you have more tire on the road thus increasing grip.

Think of it like this, if you have 0 camber on front, you'll be in this situation on a straight:

| | with the two lines representing the tires. They are flat on the road, maximum contact with it.

If you have negative camber, your tires on a straight will be like this:

/ \ so you'll have less contact with the road. But when you turn left for instance, if you have zero camber, your tires will be like this:

/ / reducing the contact with the road, thus having less grip and accentuating understeer. With negative camber instead you will be like this:

/ | so you see that the outside tire will have all of its width on the road, increasing grip. Of course, more camber you have, higher the speed of the turn has to be to push all of the tire on the road, if you have too much camber in slow or medium speed turns you will be like this still:

/ \ and there won't be any advantage in having front negative camber, you might even have less tire on the road than with zero camber if you really have excessive negative camber.

I'm sure you already knew all of this, but still I thought it might be good to repeat it

 

Yeah I knew all that stuff about camber already. I hear ya repeating is always a good idea as there is always someone looking to learn something. FWIW I originally was running -1.0 camber in the fronts after installing the coilovers and was experiencing the same problems. I guess i could try putting the bar on the stiffest setting, I just thought by having a stiffer suspension there wouldn't be such a need for so much rear bar anymore.

 

Well, -1.0 front camber is what I'm running now and I don't have this problem, so the solution must be searched somewhere else I guess. FWIW I have the rear bar on stiffest, I've got a 22mm from Alta too, and I've got to say a couple times I had issues with oversteering when coming into a turn and raising my foot from the accelerator (not even really braking then, only releasing the accelerator), but most of the time I feel it perfectly fine

 

but can't you correct understeer by stiffening up the front end to get more bite out of the front tires? So maybe because I'm running such a soft setting (for commute purposes only) its causing my problems...but like you guys have been saying, play around with settings until I'm satisfied. I'm just concerned about the rear but maybe its only acting that way because once the front bites the rear comes around with it making it feel like its sliding around.

 

just got my bc fitted, liking the fronts very much, 12 from full soft
but finding the rears extra harsh, esp at sub 30 mph even at five from full soft,
this is coming from 30mm eibach springs on ss+ dampers fully loaded, sunroof etc, new ride hight slightly higher if anything
coils are 7 and 5, and just fitted 20mm swaybar at same time?
is every one stateside running taller tyres [215/40/17 for me] or am i just expecting too much,

 

blue al...
let the springs work in just a bit.
The extra weight on the front makes them feel and wok better / faster than the rears.
300 miles is needed.

What preload did you set the front and especially the rear to ?

your 40 series arn't helping ... but many do run them

 

Well like Alski up there (Blue Al) got mine fitted at weekend and very happy. Amazed at the handling in the wet despite having almost no tread left (new tyres are going on front very soon )

Only issue I have is when getting my drive I need a full left lock and goes up a slight incline. As I straighten up however there is a noise (usually hear it a couple of times) as if someone was "twanged" a ruler or a spring.

Only think I can think it is is the end link for the roll bar catching on the drive shaft as I can not fit my finger imbetween the 2 (off how there is more room on the drivers side )

Any suggestions before I shell out $300 on adjustable endlinks?

 

Well, I don't really think this is the case, but have you checked the springs clearance within the strut towers? There might be some condition in which the spring touches on the bumps that are in there. I remember that was an issue with barrel-shaped springs and camber plates on normal shocks...

 

Not quite sure what you mean ^ but do you think if the spring is not quite tight enough that this could cause it?

 

No, it's not that. In the strut towers there are some nervatures that can interfere with the springs, especially if they are barrel-shaped, and if you mount camber plates with them. See this to know more about it:

http://www.txwerks.com/images/Instal...%20Springs.pdf

 

do i need to stick a body in the trunk

missed out the posts on preload in esssence just took out the slack. my alignment guys also struggled with 1/32 toe out, is that inches? we work in degrees/minutes here, is their a euro speak translation i am missing?

thanks for your help guys

 

Yes ... a body in the trunk is a big help ...

The spring preload comes preset from the factory ... it is usually close.

I always check before instal !

You should be OK .
I always check the preload and let my customers know how to do it before install...
I have found that most were OK / really close.

My std set up for preload (set OFF the vehicle):

1. Make sure the piston is FULLY extended. (pull the coilover holding both ends)
2. Unlock the two nuts under the spring...screw the lower one down a bit.
3. Lower the nut that touches the spring untill the spring moves freely (up and down ...loose ...bouncing around)
4. Move the nut below the spring up, till it JUST touches the spring, it will now spin but NOT move up or down.
5. Turn the nut touching the spring 1 to 2 turns further up (tighter / more spring preload)
Std spring rate (8 / 6) I usually do 1 turn ...on the option (7 / 5) I do 2.
6. Use the lower nut to lock the nut that has set the preload.. lock it together by holding the nut on the spring and tightening the other (thats why there are 2 wrenches.)

Once the spring preload (the two gold lock nuts, right under the spring are set and locked) the ride height is adjusted buy unlocking the SINGLE gold nut at the lower mount bracket...then turn the whole unit up or down. (then lock again)

The barrel can touch the inner fender if you have a LOT of camber (2.5+)

 

Alright COR, I finally got on the scales to see what I weigh...2685 w/o Driver and 2809 w/ Driver. (please no comments about the driver weight)


Here are the corners with Driver...

FL 834 FR 848
RL 590 RR 536

My question is, how do I adjust preload to compensate for the weight?

 

Here are my AUTO - X alignment specs

 

Alright ... corner balance time.

Lots of variables here but in a nut shell.

With you in the car the Corner weights are off ...the idea is to compinsate for you and uneven weight load.

In you case AZ

The FL is 14 lbs light
you would preload the FL a bit (14lbs) if you had a spring tester
That is only about 1/4 turn.. from playing around with these a LOT

The RR is 54 lbs light
you would preload the RR 54 lbs ... 1 turn

Now those are opposite corners and many other dynamics come into play as you make those corners heavier the other 2 will get lighter.

Also adjusting the end links (first make sure they are neutral) is a part of corner balancing.

I gotta tell you ... you are so close ... dont worry about putting that fire ext in the pass side and you are good to GO.

That close ...at least for me (I am the least consistant variable)

your good

Now for specific tracks and MANY other factors you can play with this stuff for EVER

 

Ahhh, assuming I read it correctly but if I have its not that as I'm currently running standard camber at the front. Or am I missing summat again?

 

Well, I'm not sure, but do you have camber plates? If you do, maybe even with stock camber angles you may get some interference...

 

Are you on about the spring interfering with the bulkhead?

 

In the garage now...thank you thank you thank you...

 

I'm talking about the same interference mentioned in that link I posted

 

So, I've been rereading this topic to search for a way to adjust camber without having to cut the towers, this is important for me because I don't want to cut parts of the car, especially if they can't be replaced to set the car back to stock when I'm going to sell it.

I've found that some used a "ball allen", I'm not sure about what that is, but I assume it is something like this, is that true?



Still, I've read that even with that or swapping the bolts to hexagonal ones and using a crow foot, it is difficult to adjust camber without cutting the towers. How difficult is that?

Also, I'm a little bit dubious about the adjusting possibilities these coilovers offer. For sure it is nice to be able to adjust them, but what I was wondering about is, since I won't be cutting the rear to make space for the adj extensions, I'll probably end adjusting the rear at install, and maybe one more time if the setting feels completely wrong, but that's it. The front is easy to adjust, yes, but won't adjusting the front without changing the rear mess the setup? To me, then, the adjusting doesn't look very useful, especially since I drive mostly around town so I won't have the need to adjust the shocks often for autoX or track (here in Italy there's no autoX, and I might do three track days per year at max).

Add to this that I already have camber plates that I could reuse with coilovers like H&R or similar, and I'm wondering if buying an adjustable coilover like these will be what I search or will just complicate my setup...

Of course, since the price is similar, one could say, "hey, get the one with more adjustability since the price is almost the same (the BCs are even a bit cheaper)" but I'm a bit scared that all that adjustability will only make it harder for me to find a setup I like...