OK - be honest with me...

I was going to have Randy put an extreme bar on my car the last time he was in Chicago, but it just didn't work out. How tough would it be for me to put one on myself? I have little experience (brake pads, changed a water pump on an old Buick, and some simple additions to an old '78 Triumph Spitfire I used to have) and I have an MCSC (note the second "C" which I am told complicates the process).

Should I try it myself or try to find someone who will install it for me here in Chicago?

 

If you are willing to cut the old bar off it makes it a lot easier I am told.

 

Makes it a really easy job

 

Cutting the stock bar makes the job much easier. I've had the Webb bar for a month and installed it today.

I ran into a problem installing the torque tube which consumed lots of extra time; one of the two new bushings required some light machine work becasue one of the holes in the bushing did not line up with the holes in the subframe...apparently the subframe is not as exact as Webb's components . I had to make one hole in the bushing wider to the left and the other wider to the right so that the bushing was perpendicular to the torque tube - this part cannot bind. By the time I figured out what was wrong and how to fix it I lost over an hour.

Two observations that I hope Randy will respond to:

1) I'm quite concerend that the torque tube requires an awful lot of force to spin within the bushings...it does not rotate nearly as freely as the stock bar in the stock bushings. My fix - lightly sand the portion of the torque tube that passes thru the bushing, and perhaps the bushings too...Randy, sound okay?

2) The endlinks come mighty close to other stock components, but more importantly to me, they are not vertical when viewed from the back or the from the side of the car.

I set the endlinks the same as stock for now and the bar is set at the second long hash mark from the pointy end of the bar.

The car feels pretty much like it did before the install, which is what I was trying to achieve for now.

Update suggestions; include washers or a spacer for the upper portion of the endlink, and a slider for the lower one so that the endlinks are vertical. Although slightly off vertical endlinks will have littel affect on how the bar works, the force on the bushings and heim joints will be a little more linear...perhaps there will even be a bit more space between things. The endlinks will definately have more room to articulate - a very big deal for me.

The bar is extremely straight forward, nice to look at, goes together very well - the above problem was with the subframe and not the Webb bar - and adjusted as written above, works seemlessly.

Nice product Randy ...Watkins Glen in about four weeks...

 

I set my end links about as short as they could go, to get my arms as close to level as I could, though my car is very low, this caused a slight interference between the nut on the bottom of the end link and the suspension piece beside it, partially caused by the non vertical end link, viewed from the rear. I wonder if this is the result of the mod he made to eliminate the chassis rub, he had a problem with. Also, I could not use the full soft position with the links at their shortest, due to interference at the end of the bar. This is partially due to the Extreme adjustment range of the bar and adjusting the links 3/8" longer would eliminate both problems.

I think, if you run the bar a little stiffer the link will be vertical, viewed from the side, though of course it would be stiffer then.

 

We have seen this with one or two of the intallations. It seems on some cars, the two subframe holes are actually tapered in slightly, causeing the two bushing blocks to not be perfectly parallel. What we have done was slot the bushing blocks with a file to allow the two blocks to become parallel.

This is an issue that has been fixed with the next run. The holes are now larger, allowing for some movement of the blocks when loose. Good DIY fix though!

-Randy

 

My drive to work this morning was a pleasure - aside from other nit-picky problems. The Webb bar comes on 'line-in' a very linear and and predictable way - it has much more harmony with the steering wheel. A very, very rewarding experience! Again, nice product Randy .

Randy, my concern above about the rotational force required to spin the bar...can I lightly sand the bar and bushings?

The top of the endlinks I can fix with washers. But give some thought to a slider at the bottom attachment point...this is much more complicated than it looks...I think Niether of these affect how the torque tube works, just throwing that out there so others do not get alarmed - this is a great swaybar in my opinion.

 

hey guys, ready to install the bar and i was wondering whats a good starting point to adjust the bar. i haven't played with sway bars much but i'm trying to have just a tad of oversteer at the limit to start with... so whats your guy's thoughts?

 

I have mine set so the bolt to the end link lines up with the 4th long line from the back. Back being the rear of the car. I actually havent played around adjusting it, where its at now fits my driving well, at least for now

Nik

 

hmm, that might be a good place to start... thanks. now need to find some roads to safely test it out.

 

Randy told me to start in the middle...

 

First of all, Why do the bushing on my $475.00 sway bar squeek? and has anyone found a way to permanetly fix the WMS Extreme squeeky sway bar problem. I'm coming up on my quarterly "grease the bushing" procedure. It's getting old real fast. I ran into someone who sells and installs after market parts yesterday in Jacksonville and he could not stop bashing the design. I feel better now .

 

In principle, the Webb bar is a racing piece, like many others you will see on track cars. So I don't know why your friend is bashing the bar, the design is sound. I've had mine on since last May(?) and do not have any sqeaking despite driving in snow/salt etc. I used the provided lube at installation only.

My only gripe is with the supplied end links; if the bar ends are installed to approximate the stock position, and, the endlinks are adjusted to nearly the middle of the bar end - 40% of the way from the end, the endlinks contact the trailing arm/hub. This will cause a slide. There are huge nicks in my endlinks. Spacers are a mustas the tolerance for bushing wear and other movements is not enough. A spacer will also help the end link to stand up vertically from the backend view.

 

Now that more people have had the webb bar for a while...

Is there any noticable difference between this bar and the Ireland engineering bar which is the same design for a vastly cheaper price? The webb looks beautiful, but from reports i have heard, the IE bar works amazingly well too.

 

All of the aftermarket rear sways need frequent greasing. My HR did and my buddies Ireland does.

In terms of aftermarket bars, for just about any make of car, you are looking at a minimum of a yearly re-lube (regardless of what any manufacturer tells you - and possibly more depending on the amount of driving you do.

Maybe instead of bashing the design this "Mini Guru" of yours could share his favorite?

 

Personally, I wouldn't sand on the sway bar itself. Normally when a bushing is tight, it's because it's too tall to fit inside the retainer. If you simply sand the bottom of the bushing (the part that contacts the frame), you can free up the movement of the bar.

(learned this from installing the front bar on our C-stock Miata)

 

I've had mine on for over a year and over 30,000 miles and I've never had any sqeeking. Well, I guess that is a lie, in the first 1000 miles I did have alittle issue. But it was not a design problem, but an installer error. I installed one of the bushings backwards and had it wiggle its way out and cause some noise. Installed correctly and havent had any problems since. (follow directions )

Have been very happy since,

Nik

 

xsmini
I have just received a WMS rear bar and I did not receive any lube with it as Meb mentioned. Did you receive lube with it and if so do you lube often?
Thanks, Steve

 

The bushings are delrin and quite thin. Sanding these requires using a tool with precisie control. I asked Randy about sanding off the paint, but he advised I leave the bar as is. I'll remove the bar for cleaning and inpsection early spring. Perhaps the torque tube will have loosened a bit...I also wonder, given the Mini's build tolerances, if the torque tube is aligned properly.

 

I think the design is great. It's easy to adjust and performs as expected. my only gripe is that Randy failed to mention the bushings will need to be lubed. i don't understand why they were dry and squeek free for the first 6 months. and lubing then now requires complete disassembly. there does not seem to be an easier way to do this or is there?

 

Meb: My bad. I assumed the bushings were the standard "D" shaped sway bar bushings. Sounds like they are round.....so yes, sanding the bushings would be way to difficult to do precisely.

 

I thought about using sticky sand paper to wrap the torque with. I figured I could mount the bushing braket to my work bench and spin it. This was and still is a viable option, but I really didn't want to go thru that during the intitial install. If there is still a fair amount of resistance when I remove the bar for inpsection, I'll try that...unless you can think of another way. But the resistance is alarmingly high. Thanks for trying to help!

 

meb
When I installed my bar I could turn it freely by hand by just grabbing the bare bar, without the sway bar arm attached, right up until I got to the final torque specification on the bearing block. At that point it got harder to rotate until I put the sway bar arm on. I asked Randy about this and he said it would loosen up after 1000 miles. What type of resistance are you getting? Is it worse than what I described?

Previously you mentioned that you received some lube with your bar. I did not receive any and thought it did not require lube. Would you reccommend a lube and if so what. We are in the middle of winter here and my car will not be back on the road until the streets are clean of salt.
Thanks, Steve

 

The whole point of using this type of bushing was so that it would not have to be lubed. The problem is subframes on the cars are not all the same. Aparently mine and a few other local cars were, as WEBB tested the bars on us. I have the original prototype still on the car, and it has been groan, squeek, and rattle free since it was put on in November of 05. Since the release, some cars squeeked, some didn't. Location didn't matter. It is the tolerances of the sub-frame that causes the noise.

On some cars, the holes that the bushing block mounts to tapers in towards the rear slightly, causing the bar to become squished and hard to rotate. This was addressed by boring larger holes into the mouting bracket, allowing the bracket to become aligned. That change was made in summer 06 if I remember correctly.

-Brian

 

I had to bore the holes on my brakets so these would fit. However, the brakets can still be skewed and I think this may be the source of friction.

You know...I have two different types of lubricants for swaybars and honestly I cannot remember if a lube was supplied now. I definately lubed the bushing given the resistance.

THE ITCH,

Your description feels right. Still, in my experience, that is too much. But the bar will be off for inspection and cleaning in about four weeks...