Good to hear you finally realized that pitted aluminum as a worst-case scenario is better than disintegrated steel.

Thank you Dan! Hypercoil makes 2.5" ID x 7" springs in 175, 200, 350, 400, and 450 lb/in rates, but I can't find any 6" long springs off the bat. Perhaps someone with better google methods can.

 

For anyone that is in the group sale, please post in the group buy forum so I can have an accurate count.

 

What rate are you looking for?

 

Ground Control sells Eibach springs in just about any ID/Length/Rate that you want.

Here is thier listing of 2.5" ID, 6" free length springs:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...gory.php/CA=48


- 2nd Edit, actually, it looks like in 6" length, the softest rate is 450 lbs/in. Ouch. However, if you want a softer spring, a longer length might make sense anyhow (coil-bind = bad). If you go to a 7" free length:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...gory.php/CA=49

They have them down around 275 lbs/in

 

in designing any product you have to consider and to balance all the requirements and all material properties.

aluminum is not necessarily a slam-dunk better choice for shocks.

it has better thermal conductivity and machines easily,
but it is not as fatigue resistant as steel. and any little corrosion pits in aluminum will be potential places for stress cracks to start (witness the F-111 problems). anodizing reduces the potential for aluminum corrosion, but it also reduces the fatigue life.

you have to be more careful in aluminum than in steel to avoid sharp corners that will cause stress concentrations because of the lower fatigue limit.

i didn't buy the d-2 coilovers because they are ALL aluminum, including ALL the brackets that stick out of the bodies. their sway bar attach brackets look like a crack waiting to happen.

it looks like (& i was told that) portions of the megans are steel (the attach fittings / lower perches) and portions are aluminum (the shock bodies.) the megan engineer said he would go over this in detail when they got the first production units. i'll post what he says.

in addition to the kws, the eibachs are stainless.

 

Well hopefully the aluminum body has a spec for its intended purpose; internal pressure and distortion are at least two key areas I am aware of...threaded areas for seals etc determine the weakest link.

These look like very nice units.

 

I will go look at my setup today, and give you a material breakdown of each part. I have the first set here, so I can give that to you.

 

Yea, hyperco unfortunately doesn't make 7" springs in 2.5". Eibach does, and if you're a baller Swift does as well.

Of course, putting Swift springs on Megan shocks would be a little funny. Swift's website is down, but they have them in 4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/18/20/22/24/26/28/30/32/34 kg/mm rates

 

Just throwing a question out.

Are our questions regarding the actual build specs meaningful? Are we driving Dan crazy? Or, do we make a few assumption based upon reputation and some information.

Frankly, and for an example, I would assume that the aluminum bodies and other components are suitable for the duty.

I'm concerned with spring rates, an assumption I'm not willing to make. Some of the other stuff??? I have to believe in the guy or the place. Perhaps our access opens the door, but I'm not sure what we would do with the information; take it a competitor and do what?

I don't require this info Dan. My reply was one of support.

 

Thanks.

I try to give the users as much info that I can. Sometime people question items, others doen't. I feel that if I'm open will every one here, I get your feedback, we even make some changes to our designs based on what you all want. It sometimes is a lengthy process, but I feel that in the end, I have a better product to offer you.

Regarding the build quality, Megan makes Coilovers for many cars, so they are aware of materials, their responce to the conditions, etc. These materials are time tested in the field, and just because they are on a Mini now, does not change the fact that it is a time tested solution, and will be able to hold up. I think that the questions getting into build materials are getting a bit off base, but I will still answer them and help you feel more comfortable for your hopefully future purchase of our coilovers.

 

my material / design comments were not intended as a knock on the megans; somebody looked like they knew what they were doing when they chose the appropriate material for the different parts of the assembly and when they designed some of the parts. ( i DID intend them as a serious questioning of the D2 ALL aluminum design.)

i really like what appear to be the steel sway bay attach "collars" or load rings that look like they clamp / thread all the way around the shock bodies. the concentrated loads from the sway bar end links and hubs are fed into the steel parts and then into the more fatigue resistant aluminum over a large area.

in fact, the sway bar attach ribs look to be better designed than the bilsteins!! i'm not 100% sure, but the swaybar attach ribs on the bilsteins look to be just single planar blade-like things welded to the case. the megans are a really nice "C" section gusseted design!! and somebody even went to the trouble of clipping off the non-load bearing corners of the rib around the hole on the megans! the bilsteins look to have a square corner in the same place. these professional touches that took a little extra time and extra money lead me to think that the designer(s) knew something about good mechanical design pratice.

the only spot on the megans i have a question about is the corner where the flats on the rear lower attach fittings end. (this part is shiny black at the very bottom of the rear shock assembly. it has machined flats on each side and a bushing through a hole normal to the flats.) IF that is an aluminum piece and IF that corner doesn't have a nice radius, it is a spot of stress concentration.

it was this spot that led me to call megan and try to find out if that part was aluminum or steel. when the engineer gets over his SEMA hangover :smile: :smile: , i'll call him again.

since i'm in the market for coilovers that will give me at LEAST a 2" drop, i hope the megans turn out to be good. (i don't race or autocross.) the teins look to be way too stiff too with their 2 turn 500 lb-in springs (ok you can buy softer 390 lb-in ones..) i seriously don't like the ALL aluminum D2s although they give a large drop (they have the same threaded-into-the-sleeve design as the megans and FLEX teins.) i'm still waiting to hear from eibach about the drop on their all stainless coilovers. these are about $300 more than the megans without a front camber plate. all the other coilovers i've seen only give a 1.5" drop.

waiting for the SEMA hangovers to be over :smile: ,
flyboy 2160

 

I've been watching this discussion with real enthusiasm, and have enjoyed reading all of the questions. I knew nothing at all about coil-overs before this thread popped up, and I think that (even if we're driving Dan crazy) this has really taught me a lot.

One question that I saw posted very early, and that was never directly addressed, was: can these be easily rebuilt? I saw where someone had said they ran on Megans for two years without needing to do so, but can I, a shade-tree mechanic, rebuild these with a little bit of know-how and a few hours of spare time?

I'm also unclear on the final shipping spring-rates. Are you going to be using exclusively the new rates, except for the one or two people who got excited about the 390's?

Final question for the autocrossers out there: will the upper-rear adjustment position force me into SM? I don't think I can drill holes anywhere in the body and stay in STS or STX, but I'm not sure.

Thanks, and thank you, Dan, for weathering the barrage of questions! I'm sure this will be a quality product, and I hope to find $950 under a mattress in the next couple of days.

 

Having a remote location to adjust your shocks won't bump you out of STX. You would have to change the suspensions mounting position or geometry to bump you out of the ST classes.

 

Dan,
Congratulations on taking the initative to develop what appears to be a fine system at a great price. I feel badly for you that so many on this board seem to offer little support for your effort.

I think many of the posters in this thread are missing the point of the system. Coilover suspension components are not intended to be suitable for all situations. In every aspect of performance modifications, there are plus and minus benefits. To get improved handling, you give up some ride quality. If some of the posters on this thread are so concerned about street ride quality, they shouldn't be looking at coilovers that are geared to improve performance handling, and must sacrafice a certain amount of street compliance in order acheive it.

Materials; if you drive in salt, it is going to eat your car. People should wash the salt off if they are worried about corrosion. The materials Dan is using are standard to most performance systems. Nothing is going to do well in the Northeast if you drive through the winters without taking some precautions.

Dan, I hope you will try to resist the pressure to try to make a system that pleases everyone. It will more than likey lack the improved performance desired, and consequently not completely please anyone. There are plenty of options available for the street, including leaving the car stock. I hope you continue to develop at least the option for this setup to perform at a high level on the track, as I would expect a major suspension upgrade to do.

 

Didn't think we needed arbitration??? Seriously, It's not like you can test drive this stuff. People don't want to drop a $1000, just to realize they made a mistake. I read all the time in here where people ended up going a different direction after they spent hundreds to upgrade, just to realize it didn't do what they wanted (I'm sure "others" testified in their word pictures that it would). All suspension have unique characterisitics, and true it can't be set up to perfectly perform in every situation. The market as indicated here wants valving adjustability, adjustable/lower ride height, better handling and cornering, and mild track performance. Bilstein PSS9 delivers all that for $1500, with unquestionable quality and customer support. The question here is what does this "Megan/Pilo Racing" suspension do for $1000? If people want a track only shock, then the JCW Bilstein is the best option. Considering that's already available in the market, why enter that competition? Designing a product is all about producing what the market demands, unless you want to go out of business like SSR just did. I doubt Pilo Racing has the ability to produce a shock that nobody wants. It's a tough business because boards like this can kill business. Yes, choices and compromises have to be made, but Dan is getting free market research here, and based on some of his less than eloquent responses, I doubt he needed to be rescued. Attempt at being argumentative aside, still have that rear Showa on your Ducati? If so, you're missing out. One of the best things I ever did on my '97 748 (853) was replacing that shock with an Ohlins unit. Wow! Looks like you have some good toys in the garage. Too bad you have to drive them on American roads.

See you at the Nurburgring! Cheers!

 

these seem like a good product, but I have a question or two about set-up:

I've corner balanced by rig a few times with H&R and Ledas and the diagonal weights are matched by turning the lower spring mounts on each coilover appropriately. first, you set the desired ride height by rough setting the mounts, then fine tune it for equal diagonals. a result is that if you want to lower the car more, you do it at the expense of compression travel
If I understnad it right, with the second adjustable feature on these Megans, presumably you could set the spring mount to...what? for optimum compresion travel? and then set the ride height and corner balance with the second adjuster, the benefit being the compresion travel does not then change with ride height adjustment.

another bit is that between settings when corner balancing, you need to drop the car on the wheels, bounce the suspension and roll it back and forth between measurments. From what I thought Dan said, you need to remove the lower coilover mount from the hub to rotate the shock body to make the second sdjuster setting. Anyone cornerbalanced with this type od coilover? Dan, how did you set yours?

 

jlm,

i've never done it with this threaded body type design, but guys on the honda forums with d2s with the same design say you can adjust the relative location of the threaded bodies by loosening the lock nut of the lower body, leaving the 2 upper jam nuts at the bottom spring perch locked together with the upper body, then turning the whole upper body assembly (springs and all?) using a wrench on the locked together upper jam nuts. i don't know if the megans will work the same way, but it seems possible. :smile: i don't have pictures, but just picture it in your mind's gearbox....:smile:

i'm also reading about people who think they can "preload" a spring that's going to have one end free to move and somehow make the spring "stiffer." that's just impossible. if you move the spring bottom perches when they're under load on the car, you're just jacking the car up or down and changing the weight on the spring by tipping the cg. if you compress the spring against a fully extended shock shaft before you put the shock on the car, you've just changed the height of that corner another way. once you have weight on the spring, its compression is controlled by that weight.

to change the weight on the spring, you have tip the cg by changing the height where the spring starts to work.

 

Steve,
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just supportive of the efforts to bring another performance option to the market. I think a high quality adjustable coilover, with camber plates included for under $1200 is a heck of a deal. Some of the Japanese stuff is actually pretty good. I would like to see alternatives to Bilstein, while I know they make excellent products, they have recently had quality issues with Porsche PSS9, and so I have my concerns about them in other applications. Additionally the MINI PSS9 so far has not proven to be the ultimate setup, good, yes, but I think there are better options. I don't know if I agree that the JCW setup is the best track option, but even if it is really good, wouldn't other choices be helpful? I'm only suggesting people realize to improve handling to any significant degree, there will be some sacrifice in ride quality. I personally would like to see more emphasis on handling.

Yes, my Duc is full Ollins fork, shock, damper. Very nice indeed.

 

Smoother then H-Sports and stock shocks on what setting? The softest or something firmer?

 

=o)

 

....again.

must be a blast at this event!?

-Eibach huh??
have u used them b4?

 

I actually said: In the future, please be careful in snipping my posts.

 

I love it when you get defensive. [looks for the smoochez emoticon]

 

We are going with the 280 front and 320 rear springs, we will have limited upgrades for those that want for a 380 / 380 setup.

 

now we're talking.