Having finally decided what coilovers I want to get, I've been advised that it might be prudent to get the camber plates at the same time (I already have the rear control arms)...

I seem to recall 4 or 5 different options for front plates. Can someone please share these here so I can proceed with the homework? TIA!

 

I have installed the H-sport camber plates and they work like a charm. There is another set out there called K mac that seem to be popular as well. I beleive Promini sells those.
Randy
Team M7

www.m7tuning.com

 

Which coilovers did you decide to get? Leda? KW?

If you go to Helix13.com you will find-
http://helix13.com/html/products/suspension.htm

RDR adjustable camber plates for $549
No holes need to be drilled. Straightforward design and installation.
Easy to adjust from stock range to about -2.5 to -3.0 degrees.
Allows for any aftermarket strut tower brace.


P&D Camber/Caster Plates
HMS 1007 P&D Camber/Caster $700.00
HMS 1008 P&D Camber/Caster Plates with Strut Braces $840.00
High quality plates adjust camber and caster, has option for P&D strut brace


If you go to Webbmotorsports.com you will find-
http://www.webbmotorsports.com/suspension.php

H-Sport Front Camber Plates
These units have proven to be the most durable of the available camber plate set ups. They allow up to 3.3 degrees of negative camber when used with coilovers, and 2.2 degrees when used with stock or aftermarket springs. The camber plates are made using both steel and billet aluminum for the lightest and strongest possible solution. No provision for additional caster is available. These units require drilling two new holes to achieve the maximum possible negative camber. No cutting is required.
Price: $420
Some pictures and brief look-
http://www.webbmotorsports.com/forum...topic.php?t=24


K-Mac Camber Plates
The K-Mac units allow both camber and caster to be adjusted. While advertised as a system that allows adjustment while the car is on the ground, you will need to raise the vehicle on the side you are adjusting to remove load and allow the system to move. The camber plates allow adjustment up to 2.0 degrees negative camber. These are available for both race and street set ups.
Price: $495 race, $475 street


Webb Motorsports Camber/Caster Plates
Webb Motorsports camber/caster plates allow the adjustment of camber with the tire and wheel still in place. These allow the maximum range of adjustment and require no cutting or fitting - they bolt right in. A strut brace can be incorporated that allows pre-tension adjustment. The maximum negative camber is 2.5 degrees, and the positive camber is .5 degrees.
Price: $500 maybe less
Webb Motorsports Strut Brace add $150
New design post-
http://www.webbmotorsports.com/forum...opic.php?t=403


Talk to randy webb and Eric Savage to find out more and what would work best with your coilovers.

Outmotoring.com also has for $369 these KMac plates that fit 3/03 or later MINIs-
http://outmotoring.com/kmac_front_camber_plates.html


Worth noting for anyone that is interested in camber plates- some adjust only camber while others will adjust caster as well. When you set your front camber you need to consider what toe setting to use when you do alignment. Once this is set you should consider leaving this alignment alone for the autocross season because changing camber will change toe setting. Alignment for autocross if not too severe (-2.2 degrees front camber and 1/16 toe out) is quite driveable on the street- just a bit rougher.

 

The K-mac plates are available through Turner Motorsports for 299 and 399 for the street and race versions respectively.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...DUCT_ID=195116

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...UCT_ID=1952116

I think all the popular plates have been listed. Maybe I'm forgetting one though.

I'm leaning toward the K-macs because they're cheaper than other plates, don't require drilling, and make LOTS of camber plates for other cars.

 

Minihune I first had a set of Kw's and had put about 25k miles on them . I persently have Leda's which I like a WHOLE lot better I used the H-Sport plates with both sets.
Randy
Team M7
www.M7tuning.com

 

Holy crap guys! Took a quick shower and I come back to several replies at nearly midnight. I guess for Minihune, it's around 9 though... Much appreicated.

To answer an earlier question, I'll be getting the Bilstein PSS9's. So, I guess the K-Macs are out then...

I can almost do my homework right here with the photos, data and links! Thanks again.

I guess my next question is, will I want to alter caster? And of the choices, which ones have delineations or marks, and are those accurate enough for a proper re-alignment to make them helpful? It seems that only Randy's has these... and maybe the P&D's...

 

Why do you say that the K-macs are out with the PSS9? I've only heard of issues with the PSS9 with the K-mac "Race" plate set due to the PSS9 using the stock upper spring plate. The "street" kit will work fine for occasional autox and track events.

 

I got that from the 2nd link you provided, so I guess that would be the race set-up. If the street one works, I would need to entertain that one then . Thanks.

 

I have pre-determined postions for stock and track conditions, which is the best way to avoid many trips to the alignment shop. If you are going to set it negative and forget it, this might not apply for you; otherwise, a feature to look for is adjustment marks or guides so you can reliably switch the camber and or caster settings back and forth between pre-determined postions. A few of the designs have the shortfalling of simple floating the strut top around until clamped.

I have never played with the caster; however the adjustability means you can dial out any inconsistencies LS/RS.

The limit for maximum negative is typically the coil spring hitting the fender well; a stock spring diameter will allow about 2.5 degrees max, which seems to be adequate from most reports.

It is a nice feature to not have to drill holes in your fender.

There is minimum clearance (maximum allowable parts build-up is about 1-3/4") between the inner hood insulation surface and anything mounted to the top of the strut tower. I had to fart around with several rod end attachments to the P&D plates because a hex head bolt (5/8" dia) interfered with hood closing, but a button head bolt fit fine. Randy's units look on the thick side, especially with those bolt heads sticking up, so i assume it is a preliminary design, or that he has worked this out.

Any camber plate has to incorporate a bearing for steering action and an allowance for axis precession during suspension and steering movement, and there is quite a bit of that. The P&D uses a 2" nylon ball in an aluminum socket with grease fittings. It looks like there might be a spherical bearing in Randy's, but a few of them use a radial ball bearing in a compliant urethane housing. The latter is similar to the stock mount. If you are looking to eliminate any excess movementm spherical is better, but it will be noisier...especially with all metal components (that is the primary difference between the K-mac street and track models, I believe).

I spent way too much time on the development of the P&D plates, but my current set has been working fine form many thousands of miles and offers the features above. I'll probably be discontinuing my plates when the few bits I have around run out.

 

minihuni- stop you're making me drool! :smile:

 

This is my procedure for using the H sports. After a visit to the alignment shop I set my " street " setting at 1 Deree negative and marked the top of the mount with a corresponding line. Then we loosened up the 3 bolts , kicked the wheel in as far as it would go and recorded 3.2 Degrees negative which works great on the track. Now when I want to make a change it is fairly simple. I have actually gone thru the process just for play days in the canyons as it is about a 15 min job at most.
Randy
Team M7
www.m7tuning.com

1/ Jack up car
2/ Loosen 3/ 17 mm bolts.
3/ Kick tire in
4/ Tighten 3 bolts
5/ Lower car
6/ Drive like crazy

End of session

1/ Jack up car
2/ Loosen 3/ 17 mm bolts.
3/ Line up " street " marks
4/ Tighten 3 bolts
5/ Lower car
6/ Drive like normal person

 

Previous posts remark that toe setting changes as you change camber. You don't mention changing toe setting. What is your setting before and after kicking your tires? How is tire wear/turn-in/straight line tracking?

 

jlm, thanks a bunch for the detailed information on the P&D. Having the scribe marks, and the ability to alter caster make yours very viable. Again, I don't know if caster is something I would deal with now, but since I might ultimately, I'm willing to consider this option when selecting a plate system. I guess the H-Sport has always been my fallback, and given Randy's jack and kick no nonsesnse approach, I'm thinking that route also, if caster is not deemed desirable...

I do wish drilling or cutting were not necessary though. But, for a guy who tore-out the battery box for a custom exhaust, I wouldn't lose any sleep over drilling a couple holes

I need to go re-learn about caster now! I once had this stuff down in my VW bug days... Thanks.

 

The stock toe in setting works for me and I have not felt a need to change it at this time. The lack of negative camber was the main issue with setting up the front end. Tire wear is greatly improved now that we can get some negative numbers. Even if the turn in wasn't improved , which it is , the savings in tire wear would make the set pay for itself in just a few track days compared to the way I used to go thru the outside tire edges in a real short time. The handling improvement is like icing on the cake. As for straight line high end tracking I feel no problems whatsoever but I do not know if the aero package we use is counteracting any bad traits in that area or not. Bottom line is the car tracks perfectly.
Randy
team M7
www.M7tuning.com

 

This is definitely a concern. I had my alignment shop set and check toe when front camber was -1.0 which is within stock range and at -2.2 degrees for autocross. If the toe was set to 1/16" out for the -2.2 degrees then once the camber is changed to -1 then the toe was off quite a bit and not in a place I'd want to drive it on the street. Therefore you'd need to mark the toe setting for -1 and for -2.2 degrees and then do an adjustment for toe with each change. This is more than I want to do so the next best thing for me is to just pick the autocross setting that helps enough for light track and autocross and just drive it on the street.

How much change you get in toe will vary with your specific setup. I have H-sport springs, stock MCS shocks, madness rear sway bar on firmest, H-sport adjustable rear lower control arms, and RDR front camber plates.

maxmini has coilovers so for him it might work to not have to change toe but I'd get an alignment shop to check toe at both stock and track camber settings to know exactly what it is. Toe for the front can be zero, 1/16 out to 1/8" out. In the rear set toe to zero to 1/16" in.

 

OK. Now for a really technical question that will test Minihune's knowledge, but may be up TonyB's alley.


I have the H-Sport camber plates with stock springs. I am thinking of going to the PSS9s. I understand that H-Sport has an "upgrade" which is designed to accomodate coil-overs (about 2.5" spring diameter). The question is would I need this for the PSS9s? I understand that the PSS9s are designed to fit in to the stock mount for the strut tower. Therefore, the PSS9s should fit right into the current H-Sport plates because they accept the stock springs.

I talked with Bilstein about this, and they said no need for a change, but I talked with H-Sport and they said I should get the "upgrade."

 

I think Bilstein is correct. The spring diameter at the top is such that only the stock top will fit.

I have the PSS9's but use the RDR camber plates.

 

Thanks dpayne1.

Did you ever run your camber plates with the stock springs, or did you add the plates and pss9s at the same time?

Any regrets with the pss9s?

 

I have run hsport springs and stock shocks w/camber plates

I have also run Leda coilovers with the 2.5" top hat w/camber plates

Look Here

At a picture of one of the front PSS9's with the stock top - there is no way you can use a 2.5" top hat with this setup.

I like the PSS9's very much

 

A picture is worth a thousand words - I'd say you are dead-on.

Thanks for the help. My PSS9s are now on order.

 

I'm doing a track weekend at Saint Lawrence Motorsport Park put on by Sports Car Club of Vermont next weekend. I have RDR camber plates with stock April 2002 struts and springs. It seems the settings should be 2.2 degrees and 1/16 to 1/8 toe. How is the 1/16 to 1/8 measured?? Is that for a 16in or 17in rim? Is the 1/16 to 1/8 difference over the length of 16 / 17 inches??

SLMP is a shifter cart track aprox. 3/4 mi / 28ft width and a very grippy surface. Only one car on the track at a time. less than $100 for both days. Lots of fun!!!!