Hey guys...I have a brand new stock CVT Cooper and was thinking about picking up either H&R or H-Sport springs. I've read on the boards that H&R drop is a little lower than the H-sports.
My question is which one will handle better(less bouncy) for day-to-day driving? Also, since the H&R are a little lower will it result in a more negative camber(causing uneven tire wear) and will I need to pick up any extra parts???

Keep in mind, it's stock right now. I will probably pick up a rear swaybar, but later on down the line when I can afford it.

 

I wouldn't buy anything but H-sport. Smoother ride than stock but progressive springs for the track and they won't lower the car too much.

 

A search will yield lots of information on this topic and it's been discussed numerous times. I have the H&R springs on my S and am happy with them (especially since I got them very cheap), but if I were to do it all over again I'd probably get the H-sport.

 

Well the reason the H-sport springs are very appealing to me are that they change the spring rates and don't lower the car excessively. If you want your car to look great, the H&R's drop looks real nice. But when it comes to handling I like the idea that H-sport designed the spring with the intent of changing the suspension dynamics by stiffening the rear to lessen the understeer and make handling more toward neutral.

 

H-sport springs, great ride, great handling
If you are very sensitive to the ride quality, consider the h-sport rear camber links. If you are running wide (205mm) tire you will get some tramlining with any lowering spring on the mini. You can easily adjust the rear camber with these and bring it back into spec. The front's do not lower enough to really effect camber at all.
Good luck. A good while your in there mod at this time is either a rear sway bar (you will almost have it out)
And shocks (you will have them out)
Good luck
Ubercooper

 

Thanks for the input so far! I have to admit though that I like the drop of the H&R springs. Is there a big difference though, as far as handling goes, with the H-sport?

I'm still a little torn between the two just because I want the best performance, but then again I like the appearance of the H&Rs. Also, I've read in a few posts that the H-sport springs are subtle in drop appearance. Don't get me wrong. I don't want the car slammed. It's just that it looks a little goofy since it is stock right now.

As far as tires go, I'm running the stock 7 hole with the all season.

 

there's another option, if you dont mind waiting, I'm testing out the new M7 spring set, it drops 30mm all the way around, and has a ride closer to stock than teh H-sports. kung off ka tomorrow, and are in socal. PM mo ko, I'll let you try it out. maneho mo auto ko. (it's an S though) and see if you lke it.

edit: pics (before)


tapos

after



_________________

 

>>Hey guys...I have a brand new stock CVT Cooper and was thinking about picking up either H&R or H-Sport springs. I've read on the boards that H&R drop is a little lower than the H-sports.
>>My question is which one will handle better(less bouncy) for day-to-day driving? Also, since the H&R are a little lower will it result in a more negative camber(causing uneven tire wear) and will I need to pick up any extra parts???

The amount of drop you get in your MC is different than that in a MCS with the same spring set. You might want to talk to Eric Savage of Helix13 to ask about how HR and H-sports do in an MC since he does both.

Another alternative spring set is Alta and Eibach (from Piloracing.com or Outmotoring,com) both are also very good with some drop and good ride quality.
H-sports are more stiff for track and autocross in non stock classes but also ride smoothly. Try not to use runflats if you don't want the ride to be too harsh.

>>Keep in mind, it's stock right now. I will probably pick up a rear swaybar, but later on down the line when I can afford it.

For an MC with CVT you might consider a 19mm rear sway bar to help stiffen the rear suspension for hard cornering and to keep things neutral or minimize understeer. This helps only with cornering so if you don't take turns hard then don't worry about adding this. Sticky non runflat tires would help as well.

To minimize the affect of the lowered springs you can use adjustable rear control arms to help reduce the negative camber in the rear to about -1 to -1.5 degrees. Otherwise you will have to live with the neg camber you get from the spring upgrade which is about -2 to -2.4 degrees depending on which springs.

The excessive negative camber may make your ride quality a little rougher so if all feels well after the springs are installed then you may not need any alignment or adjustable rear control arms (just the lower two should work).

 

Thanks again...This board is awesome! As for springs, is it the lower the drop, the more negative the camber becomes???

Meaning that the H-sports would result in the least amount of change in the camber? Also, is there a great difference between the H-sport and H&R????

Thanks again guys!!!!

 

Great thread.

I am looking at putting springs on my MC. I am willing to use the adjustable control links to keep the geometry right. What else do I need to do to see that everything aligns well and does not promote uneven tire wear?

Do I need to go to shorter travel shocks go go with the springs?

Will the lowering effect of the springs on the MC significantly improve handling? I am already putting on a 19M rear bar regardless of the springs or other mods that I might do.

Thanks for your help.

 

>>Hey guys...I have a brand new stock CVT Cooper and was thinking about picking up either H&R or H-Sport springs. I've read on the boards that H&R drop is a little lower than the H-sports.
>>My question is which one will handle better(less bouncy) for day-to-day driving? Also, since the H&R are a little lower will it result in a more negative camber(causing uneven tire wear) and will I need to pick up any extra parts???
>>

I installed H-sport springs and used MCS shocks on my CVT two weeks ago. I think it dropped about 1-inch, and the ride is great. The same or maybe even a bit softer in the straights, with progressive stiffening on the curves.

>>Keep in mind, it's stock right now. I will probably pick up a rear swaybar, but later on down the line when I can afford it.

I added the H-sport competition rear swaybar last week, and highly recommend it. I drove a few hundred miles this weekend in the mountains, and the car seems to be well balanced with no bias to either understeer or oversteer. I still have the factory front swaybar, and have no problems with that. And the increased negative camber has had no impact that I can feel. (I am running factory 7-hole wheels and regular, non-runflat tires.)

I haven't tested it in autocross yet, but hopefully soon!

 

This board is awesome! Thanks guys. I'm leaning more and more towards the H-sports, but haven't decided yet.

 

I went with H-sports and am very satified with them.

Earl

 

I've got the H&R's. I like the drop they give as it's more aggressive looking. As with the H-Sport's, the H&R's are progressive rate springs. I haven't driven anything with H-Sports, so I can't offer a comparison in handling or ride between the two types.

Rear control arms can be added if you want to go back to the standard geometry. I've been running mine for almost a year (about 12K miles) without doing anything. I've found the extra camber to be an improvement and rear tire wear has not been excessive. It's really hard to say how much the wear is over "normal" as I drive the car in a very spirited manner. :smile:

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either spring type.

 

The H&R's will ride a bit firmer than stock, whereas the rates of the H-Sports will handle smaller bumps softer than stock (at the expense of firmer large bumps). The spring rate bias for the H&R is similar to stock, meaning the handling is about the same. The spring rate bias for the H-Sport is firmer in the rear; the handling will be more neutral (less understeer) than stock or H&R. The H-Sport's also includes optimised bump-stops for the slightly lowered ride height (I'd consider this a big advantage over any other spring set out there).

As for geometry, neither should cause for concern if you maintain your stock swaybars. Keeping an eye peeled on tire wear after spring install will help to clue you in on camber vs. driving style, and whether adjustment is needed.

Hope that helps,
Ryan

 

Once again...Thanks for the advice! I think I'm going to go with the H-Sports. Now the question is how much is reasonable for installation of the springs with an alignment?

 

>>Once again...Thanks for the advice! I think I'm going to go with the H-Sports. Now the question is how much is reasonable for installation of the springs with an alignment?


I don't know where you are located for comparison sake Steve's Auto Clinic In L.A CA will do a complete job for 450 installed and a 4 wheel alignment thrown in as well.

Randy
Team M7

 

On my 2003 MCS, I recently installed H&R springs, H-sport rear sway bar, Koni shocks, brake pads, H-sport suspension arms (lower/rear) with alignment (I set the rear camber to -1.5 degrees.) Total cost for install was $550, and that included drilling the spring caps for the Konis. Sounded very fair to me.

The springs lowered the car a lot. Caution in driveways, and you will break something if you hit a parking bumper. But I like it low. H-sport springs may be a better compromise for non-track drivers. Mine is street and track, so I'm willing to live with it so low.

I also run 17 inch Kosie K1 racing wheels with Kumho 215/40 tires. Big brake kit coming soon. :smile:

I'm very pleased with the results with the rear bar at the softest setting. It's very close to being neutral at this point. I'll probably go stiffer with the sway bars. Konis are set in the middle setting. Front seems excellent, not sure if I need more or less rebound in the rear... Has anyone found a good setting for the rears?

After a day at Thunderhill, I've decided to add the H-sport front sway bar and will play with the sway bar settings front and rear. May set the rear camber to -2.0. We'll see how things play out.

I can tell you that GT3s could not keep up in the chicanes.

Phil

 

I have H&R's on my MC and I love them... I drove cars with both H&R's and H-Sports before deciding, and the H&R's seemed like the better bet to me. I didn't mind the slightly harsher ride than stock, and I liked the look with the H&R's better. I can tell you that they perform very, very well for autocrossing and spirited driving!

You can't go wrong with either, though.