Some background. I had a set of the last TSW springs (the ones with the wrong wire size). I really, really liked the way the car handled AND the way it rode (with OEM sport suspension shocks/struts), but just could not abide the strange nose high stance they caused. I replaced them with a set of the H&R springs, and they have been..............ok. The car looks great, but I have never really been what you would call happy with the handling or the ride, especially compared with the TSW's. I just don't like the way progressive rate springs feel. The car feel a little soft in the initial transitions, and it rides rougher over the bumps. It feels like the springs go from floating to rock hard.

If I knew then what I know now I would have slowly cut the TSW springs a little at a time until the car's stance was fixed, instead of sending them back and putting on the H&R's.

I have been waiting on the "fixed" TSW springs, but between the delay, and good things I have read about the Swift springs I am getting impatient. I know the Swifts have a higher spring rate than the official TSW spring rate, but given that the "defective" TSW springs had wire that was too big, I can't help but wonder if the springs I had were close to the way the Swift Spec R's would feel.

So, does anyone out there has any direct experience with both the Swift Spec R springs and the H&R Street Sport (green) springs (or the last "defective" TSW springs for that matter), especially on OEM (sport suspension) shocks? I am quite certain that I will prefer the handling of the Swift's. It is the ride I wonder about. I live in a rural area with roads (even the local Interstate) that can be a little rough, and my R53 is my daily driver.

 

The H&R's aren't great because of the drop. You're sitting on the bumpstops at rest which adds a progressive feel until you really bottom out and then it's harsh as poo.

The TSWs feel good because they're soft and tall (in the case of the defective ones they're too tall). You have a lot more travel, which feels good. Cutting them would have made them feel worse as you lose that travel.

I might try Swifts in the springtime. The rates are pretty firm and the drop is tiny bit more than I'd like but not as bad as most. I'm hoping that with cut bumpstops the firm rates will keep it from being too bumpstop active. I suspect they'll ride better than H&R but it's hard to tell.

Right now the best spring for R53 in my opinion are the Tein H-tech. Very mild drop, decent spring rates. I have them with Konis and it's better than stock in every way. Did not cut the front bumpstops, but I should have and might do that soon and it will be even better. Unfortunately they are no longer made.

You might try just cutting your bumpstops with your H&Rs. Cut from the firmer end.

- Andrew

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't think I will try cutting the bumpstops.

First, while that MIGHT moderate the harshness over large bumps/potholes, it will do nothing for the soft mushy feel they have initially, and that alone is enough to insure that I will NOT stay on the H&R's.

Second, according to information in the big Swift thread, they (Swift) engineered the R53 Spec R springs to work WITH the OEM bumpstops, so I plan to leave them as is until I can give it a shot with the Swift Spec R springs or the TSW springs (if they ever show up).

Bye the way, the TSW's did not feel soft. They were much firmer initially than the H&R's without feeling harsh. Much less initial roll when entering a corner than the H&R's allow.

I will probably go with Konis or Bilstein shocks/struts at some point, but not until the new (10 or 15k old) OEM's are done. Just not willing to part with the coin until I have too. I have other passions to feed.

 

The Swifts will definitely ride better and handle mid-corner bumps with the trimmed bumpstops, regardless of how they were designed. I prefer not to ride the bumpstops and the Swifts have enough rate that you might actually avoid them on most bumps if they're trimmed.

The H&Rs may just be crappy all around springs. The big drop with soft-ish progressive rates is a recipe for crap.

I can't stress enough how much a difference the Konis made. Awesome shocks. The OEMs are not good.

- Andrew

 

I've been on TSW springs on stock shocks and on Swifts on stock shocks.. they are 2 very different feels. IN MY OPINION, if you have rough roads and comfort matters to you at all, the Swifts are not the way to go. They are very stiff in comparison to the TSW's. Now if you want full out performance and a far better spring then H&R, Swift is a great option... the one thing I can never take away from them is that they dropped the car exactly how much they said they would, and they handled fantastic.

If you have smooth roads and don't mind a roughish ride when you hit bad roads, then again Swift, but honestly, if you had TSW's and enjoyed the TSW's (I did for the short period I had them), then wait for them to be re released, but way has no ETA.

Andyroo, I wish I had not waited so long that the H-Techs got discontinued. When I contacted Tein about getting them, they said for a "custom one off set" (essentially the spring they used to sell) it would be $600. They did however say I could contact a distributor and they could run a groupbuy and if there was enough interest they could be had at a normal price, but I highly doubt the crowd will gravitate to springs that only drop 1/2" even if they are one of the more well rounded springs.

 

Thanks blue2turbo.

Just for the record, in light if the indefinite ETA of the TSW's, I would have been interested in a Tein group buy.

 

Well, this is exactly what Tein emailed me:

Hello James,

Please take note that all of our discontinued items can be remanufactured. A group buy in would need to be done through a Tein authorized dealer. We can manufactured how many springs are needed. The wait time to have these spring(s) remanufactured is two to three months.

Please visit the link provided below for assistance with locating your nearest Tein authorized dealer.

I guess I can make a thread to see if anyone would be interested in the springs, but I don't know if I'm allowed to do that. I'm not really on the market for springs right now since I'm trying to make numbers work and get a JCW Clubman, but I wouldn't mind doing it to help others.

Should I make a thread knowing that Tein will still take about two-three months to manufacture? or wait on TSW?

 

Did they say what their minimum was?

If we got enough people, we can design our own springs and have them made by Eibach. I do work for a suspension company (Racecomp Engineering) that designs springs for Subaru and EVO, so I know the process and we can go through RCE. I did a gauging interest thread a while ago, but interest was lacking.

- Andrew

 

No they didn't say, I'm assuming the authorized dealer would be the one to handle the pricing and such.

I think you didn't get much interest before because TSW springs were already still available. Don't get me wrong, if Way were to come out with the new ones right now, I think anyone considering Teins/New springs would just get TSW's, but I was trying to get TSW's since last year... so who knows. Way does a lot for the community and I'm sure it's not him that's holding it up, but there is a huge hole in the market right now.

I also talked to NM to see if they would have any interest in producing a modest drop type spring, and they said no as well.

I think custom springs, the rates and drop are going to be key. Me personally, were I to get new springs, I may want something SLIGHTLY stiffer than TSW, but I wouldn't want any higher then Tein I don't think as comfort/performance are the key factors I'm looking for.

Also, something along the lines of 3/4" drop or less would work with FSD's. For everyone claiming no lowering springs with FSD's, I spoke to a gentleman at Koni technical support department when ordering my FSD's and told him I planned on running JCW Springs (around 1/2" drop from sport springs) and he said I should be fine without any problems, just don't go much more then that. The brief period I had the FSD's with TSW's, it was fantastic and I would do it again in a heart beat.

 

Something between TSW and Swift would be great.

I think the specs I was pushing for back then were a 15mm drop front, 10mm rear with rates of 220 lbs/in front and 240 rear.

- Andrew

 

I really wish Swift just made a sport version of their springs for the Mini. Swift quality, drop the same as the Spec R and a softer rate. I personally think the 3/4" front and rear drop was the perfect look for my tastes.

 

That's interesting, because I contacted Koni with the exact same question and this was the response:

Thank you very much for your interest in our product.

Our KONI FSD shock absorbers combined with any kind of lowering springs on the 1st generation New Mini is not the most fortunate combination. Available stroke on the shocks absorbers is limited, even more so with lowering springs fitted. As a result we feel the bump rubbers come into play too soon, to which the self-adjusting FSD shocks respond. The overall ride is an improvement over stock without a doubt, but under certain circumstances we feel the potential of the KONI FSD’s is not fully used. FSD’s combined with original length springs will not have this issue.

In case you want to remain the ride height with your current JCW springs I want to suggest to pair these with our KONI Sport shocks, which have the valving to match and still provide both handling and comfort improvements over stock.

Good luck and best regards,

Erwin Bos
Product Manager
Car, Truck & Trailer Department


P.O. Box 1014
3260AA Oud-Beijerland
The Netherlands

 

FWIW, the Koni Yellow sports will ride (and handle) better than stock at full soft.

- andrew

 

That's the problem, it's like Koni gives a different answer with every person you talk to. Either way I trimmed my bumpstops a but from the top harder end when I put the tsws on, don't think I bottomed them out at all, bumps didn't have the same crashing feeling as stock. Plenty of people are running Fsds with lowering springs, I wouldn't do it on anything other the. Tsw, htechs, or jcw, but that's just me. They did smooth out a lot of the road imperfections.

 

Two or three months, huh. Ouch.

With that much of a delay, I guess my interest level would depend of what the group buy price would be, and how many people it would take to qualify for that. And it you don't already know that blue2turbo, I am NOT asking you to call them about it. I for one don't feel right about someone who is not even in the market for a set doing the leg work.

 

Even if I'm not modifying my R53, I'll still be in the community so I don't mind helping. I just have to make sure I won't be crossing any lines, but I don't mind contacting an dealer and asking if they would even consider running it. They would be the ones to work the details with Tein and just let me know, so it wouldn't be much effort for me really, and if it helps others in the community, I'm ok with that

 

Blue2turbo, how happy were/are you with the ride quality of the Swift/Koni combination? How would you compare that combinations ride quality to the TSW's?
Are you still on the Swift/Koni combo? If so, is that what you plan to stick with?

I am asking these questions because I am really tired of being dissatisfied with the ride AND handling of my car on the H&R springs. The idea of waiting 3 months (plus) for resurrected Tein springs, or who knows how long for TSW's is becoming increasingly unpalatable. So much so that I am starting to think about just biting the bullet and finding the coin for the Swifts and Konis together.........IF there is good reason to believe that they ride well enough for daily driving on roads (especially choppy concrete Interstate) that aren't the smoothest.

I am focusing on the ride quality because it seems evident that fantastic handling is a given.

 

I got rid of the Swift/Koni setup. I put the swifts on stock shocks first, then to Koni's and I also have concrete, HORRIBLE interstates and my local roads aren't great. Even with the Koni's on full soft or slightly firmer, the ride was so harsh my girlfriend refused to ride in it anymore. Tons of people say they ride great, which is true, ON DECENT roads. When I took trips down to North Carolina where the roads are mostly all asphalt, and pretty smooth, I liked it a lot, but for driving locally, I couldn't handle it.

I went to multiple suspension setups and comfort wise, I went full circle to TSW's on FSD's and if I end up keeping my R53 and can't get the R55, I will wait till TSW's come out and do it again, they are now the only springs that I will ride on for a daily driver, and that's because Teins aren't available anymore... I would try those were they available, but as this thread has show, can't get them.

That's my opinion, I'm sure some people will come in and say Swifts are great, they're fantastic, whatever, and they are, but not in the comfort department on rough roads.

 

Tein H-tech are undoubtedly. Very light fall, reasonable springtime prices. I have them with Konis and it's better than inventory in every way. Did not cut the top side bump stops, but I should have and might do that soon and it will be even better. Unfortunately they won't be created.
. . . . . . .

 

My experience with my setup (Swift Spec R/Bilstein Sport) is that the ride is very firm. Uncomfortably so, here in the metro DC area. I believe that my stock springs with the Bilsteins would be very comfortable, but I currently favor crisp handling over comfort. As for appearance, the ride height is perfect IMO. Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone honestly claiming this setup to be comfortable. The springs are firm and so is the damping of the Bilsteins. I drive as many autocrosses and track days as my budget allows (too few), so I choose to live with the compromise. Ideally, I'd have a slightly softer rate combined with similar ride height.