Hey all,

I originally bought my 10 Mini clubman s laurel edition for a little performance and economy. I was immediately impressed with it's fun to drive nature. Well 14k miles later I am starting to see it's faults!
I am originally a BMW owner and thought since BMW owns mini that this would be a good car to own for a few years.
Not saying it's a bad car! I get more attention from this car than most of the BMW's I owned, but when I come to a situation when I need the cars suspension to have proper response and be poised enough not to feel like the *** end is going to fly out from underneath me I question it's engineering.
My question is: Will doing aftermarket performance mods really make this car any better? I am not expecting it to turn into a well balanced rear wheel drive car, but at least have a true sport suspension with better control and a decent non surging acceleration.
What's your thoughts, and am I better off trading it in for a BMW?

Sorry if I offended any true Mini lovers on here I do still like my mini but I don't love it like my BMW's

 

OK after thinking hard, and reading all the great posts everybody put on here (Thank you!!) I decided to order the TSW springs and the eibach 19mm swaybar. This should help with the stability when doing any sort of corner acrobatics. If this doesn't help (which I am sure it will) I will move forward with the shocks.
I ordered the Control arm Poly inserts....they seemed like a good mod for the price!
I also purchased the pre intercooler delete pipe. Not sure if this will help with the surging issue, but its a start.
I am not trying to throw too much $$$ at this car yet, until I see how it responds to these upgrades.
Thanks again for the amount of information you guys put out here for me to learn and spend my money! ;-)

 

The best thing you could do is get rid of the runflat tires. They really are horrible.

I installed the TSW springs, Koni struts and shocks, and the Hotchkiss rear bar. (thanks Way Motor Works).

While you can never get rid of the short wheelbase twitchyness, it will remain planted. You just have to learn to trust it.

 

Thanks Richard, already replaced those run flats with some Michelin Pilot sport a/s plus 215/45 -17 directional w sped rated tires. Going to see how she rides without new shocks. If it is still too unstable I will toss up the bi steins and the konis.
I also ordered the racing dynamic lightweight rims with a +45et offset.
Thanks

 

...as your next stop given the RF's are gone. Often referenced as the single best Mini upgrade, and especially if you are starting on a non-sport set up down at 16mm in back.

 

If you're having problems with stability and the rear end coming out too easily, I would not add a larger rear swaybar.

I would start with shocks and a proper alignment.

- Andrew

 

Andrew,
I think the springs in the back of the is car are made of Reynolds wrap! The back just seems to sag, and sway when really hitting the corners too hard.
Thanks for the tip, I hope I don't make it worse!

 

I guess it depends on your definition of stable....the bigger rear bar will increase oversteer, meaning the front has more grip and the rear will be more likely to kick out around corners. If the rear is just sloppy, uncontrolled, and feels disconnected, then a good set of shocks will help. A rear swaybar can help you feel like the rear is "doing it's part" and working more which may help add some confidence in the corners. A 19mm rear bar is not too big either, so you should be okay.

- Andrew

 

I am looking forward to the job, and some positive results! I hope the stock shocks hold up for this setup. I would rather spend the cash on the exhaust. Thanks again!

 

No problem, have fun!

 

I would also recommend the free front camber mod, and polyurethane front control arm bushes (labour intensive)

 

Finally a recommendation that will address the op's problem. Seems like the solution for many problems with suspension seem to be rear sway bar. Like Andyroo said, the larger bar will cause even more oversteer or the back end traction is lost making it slide more.

+1 on shocks. Perhaps some good springs may help some as well. Depends on the definition of stability.

 

Etalj, your comments have made me pause and think.

If everyone knows this already, sorry for the repetition. A turn can be generally broken down into three general parts:

1. Turn in
2. Apex
3. Track out

A car is not neutral through all the three phases of the turn. A car can move from understeer to oversteer through the three phases depending on what you do to it and how you drive.

Camber plates and increased negative camber works best at turn in by improving the cars steering geometry. Shocks can help here as well.

Rear sway bars are useful for the middle of the turn or toward the apex. If you want to improve oversteer here, the rsb will work well.

At track out, this is where you can have problems with a higher powered Mini. As you lift the front of the car from power, you will go back to understeer again. The rear bar will not be so useful as your steering wheel should be straighter. perhaps springs and shocks can be more helpful here as well.

The balance between the front to back is important here as the problem can and do shift from the start to end of a turn. A turn must be viewed in a connected way and introducing something in the front such as camber plates must be balanced with how big a bar needs to be to give you a more neutral feel in the middle coupled with the ability to apply power out of a turn. Perhaps shocks and springs can be helpful to the op.

 

slinger688,
Thanks for the detailed post!
So a well balanced car, and tuned suspension (like the 135i with the M sport package) would be what is desired for good cornering control.
So her is the question:
What do I need to do to make my Mini close to the BMW without dropping thousands into it, or do i need to drop that much dough in it?
Am I on the right track (no pun intended) or should I stop and re-evaluate my suspension upgrade purchases (TSW springs, Eibach 19mm Swaybar)
Keep in mind my Mini does have the sport suspension already from factory. I never had any real issues with front end responsiveness, but the rear end is too sloppy for comfort.
Thanks again!

 

Shocks really change so much about how a car feels in corners and over bumps. Really one of the best things you can do for controlling your chassis is go with a quality damper like Koni Yellows or Bilsteins. I am a Bilstein fan but went with Koni Yellows on my 2005 Mini because of a good deal and I am happy with them. Love custom valved Bilsteins and like Bilstein HDs on other cars. The OEM shocks are not very good.

Alignment contributes a lot to the balance of the car, and really the OEM alignment is the worst of all worlds. Lots of improvement to have here. I can't stress enough how much better the front of my car feels after adding fixed camber plates. So much more grip, better turn-in, etc. You can reduce understeer throughout the turn and keep things very stable and controllable

Springs are optional in my opinion. The NM and TSW springs do look nice but without knowing the OEM rates I don't really know what the handling improvement is.

A lot of people think a bigger rear swaybar is the solution to every handling problem, and like slinger said this is just not true. It can be an improvement in a total package but there are many parts to the system and may not be required for all drivers/cars.

- Andrew

 

Ronmaf, pm me a time and number to call you if you want to discuss. I just do not have the time to type my response to you.

Andyroo is one of the most experienced persons we have on NAM that knows suspension mods so I would trust his advise.

 

Is that a good thing or bad thing?

Seriously though, extra front camber, a nice alignment (toe-wise), some Bilstein shocks and some poly FLCA bushes would make the MINI handle and grip like it should out of the factory. The bushes and the shocks not only enhance grip, but get rid of that idiotic skipping that the MINI has when it hits bumps mid corner. It's terrifying. Front camber increases grip pretty much throughout the whole turn. After that, I would then think about a swaybar, but I do not think that the swaybar should be the first suspension mod. People learn that the hard way sometimes if they're inexperienced drivers.

 

Thanks Guys! I just installed the torque arm bushings... WOW what a difference a $65 mod makes on this car. I will be doing my springs this weekend. I am sure they will make a huge difference.
Are there any instructions for the mini spring swap. Anything out of the ordinary etc. Thanks

 

So I installed the TSW springs and first it wasn't so bad about 5 hours total. The weird part is that they didn't drop the car at all! I was expecting a drop as advertised but really if anything it raised the rear about 1/2"! I did notice that the front struts were a lot better than the rears. I may just put some rear struts on.
As for the ride it was a bit firmer not too harsh or jarring in any way. Seems to have mostly eliminated the soft feel it had prior.
Next is the down pipe and the rear sway bar.
Now off to wash him. And a wheel alignment.
Thanks again!
Ron