Wow, what a difference! Turn-in is absolutely superb! The car is almost completely neutral, and goes through corners like a rocket. Unlike some 22mm rear swaybar'ed cars I've driven, there is no push at high speeds (this is the main reason I decided against the 22mm, but to each their own!).

IMHO, the 19mm H&R on the stiff setting is the PERFECT match for the H&R springs... The bend schedules are spot on the stock swaybar. I cannot recommend this setup enough. Talk about cornering on rails - absolutely flat. You could easily setup a drift with throttle modulation if you wanted to...

REEEEEEALLY easy install for the MC crowd (MCS would be more involved, more on that in a minute). Total install time was 1 hour flat. I pretty much followed Randy's (Randy Webb from Webb Motorsports) directions as posted on NAM, with the following modifications:

1. You only need to remove one strut... I suggest the passenger side, for no other reason than, uhhh, because! :smile:

2. You don't need to remove all 4 bolts from the rear crossmember! Take both out on the side where you removed the strut (in my case, the passenger side). On the other side, take the interior bolt COMPLETELY out (the one closest to the center of the car), but only loosen the outside one (near the swaybar mounting point).

3. You can EASILY fish the bar out doing it this way - simply start on the side where you removed the strut, pull the crossmember down slightly, and slide the swaybar out over the top of the crossmember bracket. Then, thread the bar through the tunnel and out the other side. We MC'ers don't have to deal with the giant wire bundle in the center of the car that was mentioned in Randy's article because our battery is in the front! :smile:

4. Fish the new bar back in the same way... easy as cake! Loosely put the bolts for the swaybar brackets back in, then, have someone roll under the car on the side where you took both bolts out and push up on the rear crossmember - it rotates right back into place like Randy said! Start the bolts on that side, then hand tighten all 4 bolts... once that's done, set the torque wrench at 100 (see Randy's 'Rear Swaybar Install' thread on NAM or his website for all torque specs), and tighten 'em up (our kicka** impact wrench has a setting that's right on 100 - perfect!).

5. Re-install the strut you removed.

6. Choose your swaybar setting... I chose stiff, or the most inboard (closest to the center of the car).

Wallah! Simple... I was amazed at how quickly it went.

 

I havn't done any suspension work to my car, but I am thinking about it, I was thinking of doing some of H&R' s products, but thank you for the insight. After the exhaust that may be my next set of modifications.

 

Nice write-up! What front bar are you running? Standard MC 22mm or Sport suspension 24mm?

 

The Sport suspension's 24mm... From what I have heard, many people that have upgraded the front bar to say, a 27mm bar, have taken it back out because it re-introduces the understeer... And mine's gone right now... and I don't want it back!

 

Sorry for rehashing this old thread, but I felt it was quite useful in my install over the weekend of a RSB for the MC.

Just some add-ons to the install:
- it can by done by just one person, all though it's a bit more of a struggle when screwing the sub-frame back on. Just wanted to point out that the inside bolts of the sub-frame should be screwed in first and then it makes screwing in the outside bolts much easier because the sub-frame is lined up.

- I also found it better to screw in the RSB mounts (13 mm) completely before starting on the sub-frame, since you have more space for the wrench with the strut out of the way.

- Also, besides the tools listed that are needed, make sure you have some crazy extensions. To remove/reinstall the subframe bolts, I had an extension about a foot long to make it easier on the wrench.

I put my H&R 19 mm on the softer setting and it's amazing! Took her for a spin in the nearby highschool parking lot with islands and she was just turning on the dime with very little push. Awesome.

 

Like all of us who have done the RSB, it's the next best thing to the pulley (MCS owners) for the buck. Enjoy!

 

On a track or AX course it helps more than the pulley.

 

I agree that this is an amazing mod, especially for the price. And good write up, the 19mm bar IS really good. I do not, however, agree with your rationale for choosing the 19mm over the 22mm. If your using the 19mm on the "stiff" setting, you're increasing the effective rate by about 210 lbs/in. With the 22mm bar on the soft setting you're increasing the effect rate by about 250 lbs/in or and extra 20%. In everyday driving, even at high speeds, this is not a huge difference. In fact, a lot of people (including excellent drivers like Randy Webb) who have used a 22mm bar prefer to leave it on the middle setting.

That's not to say that the 19mm won't be "perfect" for some people. What I'm saying is that the difference is not THAT noticable and many people prefer the feel of the 22mm. And the nice thing about the 22mm is that you can step it up for autocross, driving schools, track days, etc. With the 19mm there's not much reason use anything other than the stiff setting.

 

We tried several bars - 19mm, 22mm hollow, and 22mm solid...we are running the latter now. All were tried on the stiffest setting, and the 22mm bar is quicker on the track, and great fun on a roundabout that's wet.

On the track, I can rotate the car very accurately under trailbraking, and am much smoother on transitions on the throttle....earlier, too!!! The fast corners are another matter, as the rear ARB really gets your attention fast.

S.

 

We can agree to disagree... I've argued with plenty of people over the years about the 19mm v 22mm debate.

But, if you're running coilovers, it completely depends on the spring rates you're running...

IMHO, after instructing in a lot of MINIs with 22mm rear bars for both AX and track work, I've made them pull into the pits and soften up the rear bar if it's not already on the full soft setting - regardless of what other suspension bits they were running. There are a whole lot of people running 22mm rear bars because that's what forums tell them is the 'right choice' - IMHO, they're way, way too much unless you just really like a tail happy car... For a beginner on the track, it's very easy to get into trouble with a 22mm rear bar - and on the street, I've seen firsthand what a panic situation on backroads led to (trailing throttle oversteer, mid corner = a wrecked MINI).

Regardless of the suspensions we've run over the last 4 years, I've never felt that anything more than a 19mm H&R rear swaybar was necessary - from OEM SS+, to Bilstein SP's with H&R springs, to our TSW/Leda Softcore setup, to the current TSW/AST Softcore setup.

Our mantra is - spring rates first, less bar = better.

 

agreed... springs are to make adjustments to the cars attitude, bars are to dial in that last tiny little bit.

trying to make the swaybar be your end all answer to the mini's handleing characteristics will come back to bite you in the end.

 

Agreed on all points....the problem is that our Technical regs did not permit spring rate changes, camber plates, or adjustable control arms...we could only change the bars, and had no other choice in the matter.

Now that we are in a new series, all of these things are 'free' and we are going putting plates, control arms, etc. on the cars now....and no doubt, we will need to dial back on the bars, which is great.

We also had to run the SPAX units, which I don't care for, as they don't use linear springs (and limit the adjustability of the camber in the front, due to clearance issues)....we'll be changing these as well.

S.