Hey guys, ordered a set of KW Variant 1 Coilovers from another member. Couldn't beat the price and nothing but good reviews. I do have some questions though:
I have H+R Sport Springs right now and they're pretty stiff in the turns. Can I expect the same from V1's or are they softer by a lot?

I will set these very low. Does the spring get harder as you set it lower? I would imagine yes, but there might be something in the shock setup to lower it back down.

My friend suggested that I put my H+Rs on the coils...I know nothing about coilovers but I can assume that wont work right?

 

You won't be able to put your H+R springs on the KW's.

They will ride better than what you have now.

Ride quality will get worse as you lower the car more, but you will still be able to get pretty low. Don't go crazy though. 2 inches would be pretty much as low you would want to go (rough estimate).

- Andrew

 

I didn't think so

Ride quality isn't exactly what I'm looking for

Yea, 2.0 is my summer height. 1.5 til then.




What about in the corners? Softer? More/Less Body Roll? If so any ideas to counter that?...I do have adjustable rear endlinks and will be buying fronts. Should I tighten those up?

 

Probably less body roll, but you'll have better handling with the KW's regardless....there's more to it then body roll.

Set your endlinks so that they line up with the swaybar at the ride height you choose....meaning there is no preload on the swaybar.

- drew

 

Do you mean to ask: will the suspension as a whole get stiffer as you go lower? Yes, simply because all linear springs are actually progressive to some degree, meaning that the more they are compressed, the stiffer they get. The shock will theoretically not get stiffer, however, it may do, due to inconsistencies of damper behaviour as travel decreases. However, if you're looking to improve handling, I wouldn't go lower than 1.5". Also make sure your rear camber is reset to stock after the install.

I'd also look into getting your car corner-balanced.

 

I respectfully do not think this is correct - in the case of coil overs the spring length is the same. It is the mounting point that is changed, as you lower or raise (most coilovers thread the shock/strut barrel and the then use a threaded collar to position (ie lower/raise) the spring on the shock/strut).

In the case of lowering springs the "lowering spring" is just made shorter. The big disadvantage to this method is the the suspension travel has been shorten by the amount of difference in original and replacement spring. This means your are more likely to bottom out, meaning ride quality will degrade.

The actual comfort of the both lowering springs and coilovers is dependent on the design by the manufacturer ie softer or harder.

The same goes for the design of the shock strut, as design also determines ride comfort ie soft or hard.

What lowering often messes up is suspension travel. The MINI does not have but about 5" to begin with (droop and compression).

When you lower a MINI 2" with lowering springs your have eliminated 40% of your suspension travel. This is why properly designed coilovers are prefered as you simply lower the mounting perch and the spring and travel remains the same.

 

I don't mind someone disagreeing

But i don't quite understand what you're disagreeing with. A coilover, as you said, changes the ride height of the car by an adjustable collar/lower spring perch. By doing this, you are compressing the spring (unless of course you have a coilover that allows independent height adjustment, like JIC/CROSS)

And yes I agree, if travel is reduced such that you're cornering/riding on bumpstops, the ride quality will deteriorate rapidly. Droop travel on the mini isn't bad, it's the compression travel that's the problem. The mini has virtually nothing, so lowering on stock shocks will not be a good idea

 

i would think that most coilovers that have a lowering ability make it so that you can lower the car x amount without degrading the ride quality, which is one of the BIG pluses for the KWs... at least with other cars the KWs are big for being the only coilover than can be SLAMMED and not degrade the ride quality at all...

my car is currently 2 inches lower than stock on custom konis, had Tinman and Tortie ride in my car as well as the guys at helix13... it's definitely stiffer than stock, i've also ridden in the old Helix Shop car that had KW V1s, they're pretty damn comfy for a coilover! in hind sight, i'd actually would like to have tried out plates, control arms with either NM springs or TSW springs on FSDs for a daily driver... but since i track my car pretty often the coilovers are a great way to do it.

 

what's being confused here is the incorrect assumption that by lowering the coilovers, you are loading the springs more. To lower the car you move the spring perch down on the threaded body of the strut, essentially unloading the spring. Actually, with KWs, you are unloading a tender spring which is designed to bind when the car is on the ground, and doesn't have any effect on ride quality.

 

Thanks Helix -- Your explanation, explains it much better.

 

Edit- hold on, surely if the strut is threaded near the bottom, then moving the perch down (unloading the spring), is lengthening the whole assembly?

 

+1. Coilovers FTW!!!

 

Thanks for all the info guys. Learning more and more about this.
To whoever said it before...corner balancing is definitely something I'm looking into. It will be down the road, but its something I'm looking at. I may do it farther down the road with another set of coils. These were awesome price for the product and down the road I want to put on something with more adjustments so I can learn even more about how dampening and such things work.

 

hopefully i can clear up some confusion here....

A dual height adjustable coilover is generally raised and lowered using the threaded lower bracket...lets not call that a spring perch. The spring perch is just used to set preload (usually). So the preload on the spring remains the same when lowering or raising the car when using the lower bracket.

A single height adjustable coilover like KW's and....well most good coilovers...uses the lower perch to set ride height. Raising or lowering the perch would increase/decrease preload on the main spring, but that's partially why helper/tender springs are there. You're really only preloading a very low rate helper spring and the main spring is not compressed or preloaded.

So the feature that so many crappy coilovers love to push is the dual height adjustability...saying that it lets you adjust ride height without affecting bump travel or spring preload. Well, they don't have any bump travel to begin with, and single height adjustable coilovers with helper springs don't really affect spring preload either.

- Andrew

 

I have read a few dozen places that the FSD will NOT work with lowering springs. Do you know something I don't? I would love that setup if the shocks can handle it.

 

On Koni Web site: http://www.koni-na.com/fsd.cfm
They specifically say quote
"Pair with Eibach springs for 1"-1.5" lowering"

I think where the discrepancy is that some say you can pair only with Eibach.

For me this is just like MINI saying only buy genuine MINI parts from MINI!

The important thing is not to exceed the 1.5", but that goes with pretty much every shock. There simply not much travel left for the shock to work.

 

Yep, this is what I thought. If the helper/tender spring weren't there, the spring would be preloaded....

Also, I agree 100% about crappy coilovers using independent ride height adjustments to big up their product. It annoys me that every time someone tells me about a coilover, they tell me about the amount of clicks the damper adjusters have, the independant ride height adjustment, and the independent adjustibility. They don't realise how important it is to have good valving curves. I would rather an excellently valved coilover with only ride-height adjustibility than something with independent bump/rebound adjustment with average damping curves, or something with ride height independent of spring preload.

It also bothers me that shocks are not released with damping curves/shock dynos. (Obviously smaller businesses can't afford to do it unless the big boys do it, and the amount of people that buy crappy coilovers without knowing anything drives me crazy)

End rant

 

Ao i put everything together today on a lift, set it down on the ground and they inside of the tire is rubbing the spring and the purple thing that hold the spring up. I was able to bring it all the way to the top and it doesn't rub but am i missing something? What did I do wrong?

I'm thinking endlinks, but you guys know better than me

 

You need like 3mm spacers.

 

I was thinking spacers might do the trick. Should i just go get generic spacers at pep boys for 3mm or should I go for like a 5 or 10mm H+R kit?

 

spacers are not the best way to do it.
When you lower the car it adds a lot of negative camber on the rear. You just need to readjust the camber to compensate. This is adjustable to a certain degree on a stock R56, but if you lowered more than an inch then you need to get adjustable rear control arms to allow you to bring the alignment back to spec.
That will bring you back from this /-\ to this l-l

 

What? He's saying his tires hit the springs. How will camber changes fix this? It won't.

I'd recommend the better ones, but you have other options other than h&r. I found good ones for my BMW on ebay for about half the price of h&r's.

 

Camber affects how your wheel/tire sits. It does indeed bring the wheel/tire closer to the strut/spring with more negative camber.

 

I don't believe so. Changing camber changes the whole assembly (strut, spring, tire, rim, hub, brakes, etc)

 

yeah if you're moving the camber plate in, your moving the strut in.

- drew