I recently installed some Ireland Engineering adjustable camber plates (street model) and now have some odd steering issues. I originally posted this on another thread and got some helpful suggestions from meb but I thought it might be better to start a new thread and open it up to the entire MINI community. I have tried everything that has been suggested but nothing has helped . Here are the details:

I recently installed new tires on my 2004 MCS and also IE adjustable camber plates. The car was then aligned to factory specs -0.5 camber up front and -1.3 camber in the rear. The car has H-Sport front and rear sway bars (set to their stiffest settings), H-Sport lower control arms, H-sport lowering springs, an M7 STB, and a Mason Engineering lower front brace.

After the camber plates were installed, the car drifts in the direction of the last turn. In other words, if I turn right the car will then tend to drift right if I release the steering wheel after returning to straight. If I turn left, the car will then tend to drift left if I release the steering wheel after returning to straight. We have checked the alignment twice and even removed the struts/camber plates to make sure everything was properly installed and it looks fine. The car did not drive like this before the adjustable camber plates were installed.

After receiving some insight and suggestions from meb, I re-checked the following:

The strut bearings (within the adjustable camber plates) are new and feel buttery smooth in the hand and the wheels turn left/right with no resistance while the car is up on the alignment rack (weighted).

The control arm bushings are PowerFlex and less than 1 month old. All looks good in the sway bar drop links.

As far as the power steering pump, I really don't know how to judge "working correctly". I had my alternator go out last year and the power steering pump would not run without the alternator. I know what it's like when the power steering pump is off and I know I don't have that now. I also checked that the power steering pump fan does turn on after running the car for a couple of minutes. The fluid level in the power steering tank is OK.

I read in one of meb's posts, that he chased steering related issues for quite some time and the problems were solved when he replaced the pump. I am tempted to swap the pump but it’s not a small ticket item.

The only symptom that I am having is that the car tends to drift in the direction of the last turn. Has anyone experience anything like this? Any other suggestions to help determine it’s the pump?

Any help is greatly appreciated !

 

So hard to do guesswork on stuf like this. Could be minor to major.

I guess at this point I'd start over. Car could be very outa square.
I'm sure youve been though most checks, but camber plates are on the correct side? Sounds like a big castor issue.
I'd go to a different alignment shop also.
Some oddities here. Why did you install these camber plates and then stay with factory spec alignment?
Why, OH why do you have your sway bars maxed out? Very very bad to have a maxed out front H-sport, IMHO.

Hmmm,

 

Are your subframes tight?

 

I don't think the camber plates could be installed on the incorrect side with the shape of the top of the plates. I will confirm anyways seeing as how they did not come with any instructions. Castor was well within specs.

The adjustable camber plates were installed to solve a camber inbalance from right to left. I needed to add negative camber to right side and could do nothing about it with stock plates. We set it up to factory on the first go but set it to -1.5 last Friday and got the same affect.

The sway bars are set to the stiffest upon a recommendation from H-Sport when I added the front bar after having the rear bar for 4 years in the middle setting. I can set these to a more compliant setting, but I don't think they are the cause of the odd steering.

The shop doing the work is a friend's and I trust his work.

Thanks for the input!

 

Yes, every bolt down there was checked when we installed the PowerFlex LCA bushings and again last week.

 

Ahh, then this "might" be your problem right here. I believe (been a while so I may be wrong) that indeed you can reverse the camber plates on the Mini. I'm pretty sure you can in fact put them on the wrong side and they will match bolt holes. If this is what you did then there you go. Take a picture if your not sure and post it here.

If this is just a street car then be very very careful with your current setup. If you do a corner fast and just clip the slightest bit of sand or debris, then your in trouble. In no way would I even recommend a larger sway bar in front for street driving, let alone set to max.

So you know, every Mini comes with uneven camber.

 

To re-affirm what 'onasled' has said and to add to the possibilities:

When the shop installed my camber plates they discovered I had 2 lefts instead of a left and a right.
It was glitch by the supplier and until they were installed the shop had no idea there was a problem.
There were no instructions and they were not marked left or right and yes, they bolted up just fine.

A quick way to check is to pop the bonnet and look at the top of the struts.
When looking at the top of the struts, from the front of the car, they both should be leaning inboard toward the motor.

Hope this helps...

 

... but camber would be obviously off on the alignment machine if you had the plates swapped (or two of the same side)... if they were swapped, you'd end up with positive camber on both sides, yes?

 

EXCEPT!!! And I do not know this for sure, but the plates, if installed incorrectly, may actually remove any caster built into the stock geometry.
In other words. if the plates are in backward - despite fitting the holes correctly - they might position the strut axis more forward at the top thereby removing caster. Less caster definately describes your condition - your car's condition. A tell-tale sign is that turn-in response feels quicker with less resistance or steering effort at the wheel.

I had these plates and I had tocarefully inspect them to make sure they were on the correct side...easy to screw up and not so easy to see at first blush.

 

What tires did you put on? If they're something like BFG KDW2 or Goodyear GS-D3, there's your problem. Both those tires have massive tread squirm that ruin steering precision. Do you have access to known-good tires [even stock run-flats]?

 

...big block treads will do that...do these two tires have big blocky treads Ryan?

 

You can still get correct camber if installed switched from one side to the other. But if they are wrong then 1.5 would look like it was about all you could get. AND if wrong, you will screw up castor, a lot.

I just drew this up on paint. If you look at you plates then you will see if they are wrong. The slide will be going towards the front the closer to the motor you go, rather then almost straight across.

 

Yes; the KDW2's have lots of tread block wiggle and the GS-D3's have significant sidewall floppiness. Of course, what may be one mans' Epic Fail [my opinion of the GS-D3] may be another persons w00t-fest.

 

Have you checked your steering rack to see if it's loose or the bushings are worn?

Common symptom, and cause, with other cars I've had in the past... not so sure about the Minis..

Just a thought!!!!

 

The tires are Yokohama S-Drive 215 40 R 17.

Here are some pictures of what the plates look like from the top. They appear to be installed correctly as per onasled's diagram and also match the instruction sheet I finally received from Ireland Engineering last night.

 

I hope the camber indicated between left to right by virtue of the allen screw location is a pre-alignment photograph...otherwise something is wrong???

If this is a post alignment photo and camber is equal side to side, then the SAI/King pin axis is way off side to side and this will also cause the indicated problem since one side of the car will rise when the wheel is turned and the other will not rise in sync - of at all. Remember, camber is also SAI/king pin axis

 

EDIT, Meb has a good eye
Yea, what's with the location of the struts in those camber plates?
You sure that your front struts are fully seated in the hub carriers?
Sorry if you have been over this already, but a couple more thoughts.
Outer and inner ball joints OK? Bad ball joints would be a big culprit here
Tie rod ends good?
How long have the H-Sport lowering springs been on? After about 20K miles you can see front strut failure when adding lowering springs.


ADDED THIS By chance...... could you have set the front up with + .5 camber rather then - .5?

 

The camber is definitely not symmetrical. If the alignment rack said so then you likely have a bent subframe or a-arm.

 

We believe we found the problem, the IE camber plates. After working with Jeremy Chandler @ IE to confirm all was installed correctly, the car still drove the same way. Today we removed the IE camber plates and installed the OEM strut mounts and the car drives fine, just like it used to.

Apparently, even though it all looks OK and the bearings turn freely in your hands and with the car on the alignment rack, something is binding while driving down the road. Tomorrow we will pass this on to IE and see what my options are.

I am leaning towards going with something else. I am considering either H-Sport camber plates or maybe Magen Racing coil overs since they include adjustable camber plates and are within my budget. Any opinion on either of these products?

 

Eibach also has front camber plates which are cheaper than the H-Sports.

 

Ryan,

I gave Rad some info about Megan in a PM but I suggested he contact you regarding Swift and your set up. That may be a more expensive route but at least he'll have a value oriented choice to go along with some other options.

Greg,

Any thoughts?

I am sort of out of the loop about good setups these days...still, the Megan camber plates are absolutely bullet proof!!!

 

It's hard to see in the pics so I'll ask, did you get and use the spacers that IE should have sent with the adjustable plates? If not I bet that's the issue.

 

If you stay with camber plates, I would suggest Hotchkis or TSW.

 

AutoXCooper, yes we did use the special spacers. On the first install we did not as they were not provided with the plates and no instructions were included. We called IE and figured we needed spacers but modified some washers that had the same stack height as the spacers. When the car drifted after the install, we contacted IE and got a set of spacers thinkinf for sure that was our problem.

We installed one spacer below and one above the camber plate as directed. According to IE, sometimes 2 spacers are used under the plate but in my case this would not let the nut seat properly (nylon threads were not reached) on the shaft of the strut so only ones was used. One above and one below is also a common install according to IE.

After this install, the car still drove the same goofy way. Removing the plates and putting back the OEM plates fixed the drifting problem.

quikmni, thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the H-Sport (Hotchkis) camber plates as all my other suspension components are H-Sport and have been issues free.

 

I'm still very uncomfortable with the pictures of his camber plates. It seems the strut is just so far outboard, if these picture are in fact as the car is after the alignment.
I know the guy doing the alignment is a friend, but I've had friends that I thought were trustworthy also.
The fact that the original plates work OK also makes me wonder about the alignment issue.
You are adjusting toe, right?

Otherwise it could be the spacers that AotoX is mentioning, as I don't know what the street IEs are like. I do however use the Race plates.
AutoX, are you talking about the top spring perch that has bearings that allow the struts to rotate freely?
Rad, if you don't have these then in fact you may be winding up your springs, which would be a real cause. Do you ever hear any POPPING noise when turning at very low speed?