OK, so I'm in the middle of replacing the timing chain (and rebuilding the turbo) (and replacing the oil filter housing gaskets) in my 2008 R56S N14. The engine is at 90° BTDC, the flywheel pin is engaged. I am putting the two camshaft locking tools across the cams, and the cams seem to be a couple degrees off...

You can see the camshaft tools sitting across the head at an angle in the image.

So, I'm not really sure where to go from here. Is my timing off? The car ran well enough before I started this job (I mean, it's been blowing blue smoke and has felt a little down on power, but it hasn't been idling rough or knocking). Does this seem like the chain has skipped a tooth?

My hunch is that I just need to unbolt the chain and get the cams to sit in the right position, but I'm nervous about disconnecting things and screwing up the timing. I'd appreciate any advice, speculation, or conversation.

Thanks in advance.

 

How many mile on the car? Could the timing chain have been replaced before you owned it?
Maybe mark all points as they are now and then take apart to get the tool to sit down.
Good luck to you. I am days away from doing the timing chain on my mini and will be watching this thread closely.

 

135k miles on the car, I've owned it since 55k. Very unlikely (in my mind) that the chain is anything other than what came out of the factory.

I'm considering using zip ties to hold the chain in position on the sprockets as I remove them. Then probably rotating the cams to get the tool to sit flat and reinstalling the sprockets (or installing new). I'm also going to call my local indie mechanic and see if he has come across this before.

Again, I'm just pretty concerned about messing up the timing by removing the chain and rotating the cams out of phase with the crank.

Will you be replacing the sprockets when you do your timing chain? I haven't been planning on it but perhaps it would be a good idea. I read somewhere that if the chain is stretched, the teeth on the sprockets may have worn enough to cause some sloppiness that wouldn't be good to transfer to the new chain.

 

Did you remove the timing chain tensioner before installing the cam tool? Read somewhere that things could move when this part is removed.
Wasn't planing on replacing cam sprocket. The timing kit I chose fromECS has a crank sprocket.

 

What camshaft locking tool kit are you using and where did you get it from?

 

Yeah, I did remove the tensioner before locking the timing down. I'm wondering if it jumped a tooth when I did that. That's what Pelican Parts' writeup suggested doing, and I questioned it, but followed blindly. Probably a bad idea.

A guy at work recommended removing the tensioner again and trying to manually moving the chain over a tooth to see if that gets the cams to sit flat (after marking the current location on the sprockets first, of course).

I guess we'll see how this goes after I button it all back up.

 

Oh, about the timing tool. I bought the cheapest one on ebay, I think it was about 45 bucks. I'm not sure what brand it is. Seems to be a decent set. The reviews were OK, most mentioned having to take a couple thousandths off the flywheel locking pin. I anticipated that, and had to do the same, so I spent about 15 minutes with some 150 grit sandpaper and a vice yesterday, and it worked perfectly after that.

 

IMO you do not have the crank in the correct position... turn the crank over until the squares are lined up and the pistons are centered - straws in the cylinders should all be even. I found that the crank locking tool went in half way and seemed engaged.... it was not... it was only in hole in trans case. You need to get it about right... then use your crankshaft holding tool to slightly giggle the crank until the little pin in locking tool slips into slot fully - you will know it. The camshaft tool should then fit perfect.

 

Sounds like the timing slipped. This guy goes through a timing chain kit installation,
Timing chain tools installed at 30min mark
https://youtu.be/qySLGAD7DRg
I believe this part (2) is where he actually addresses the timing for the first time, and it may be in the third part that he actually gets it timed. But essentially lock it in at 90 degrees, loosen the cams and line up to the tool. Then get the chain installed, and remove the tool, rotate the engine over 4 times, repeat loosening the cam and line up-- it should line up 2x in a row to make sure it stays in time.
Timing completion starts at about 36m and finished about 45mins... I recommend watching the videos at 2x speed
https://youtu.be/19gFe8P12VU

 

if the crankshaft is locked then step 1 is ok. locking the camshafts is step 2. whether you take the tensioner or not, the cams need to be aligned. in your case, they were not. so, lock the exhaust cam and then remove the sprocket and chain. use the socket bolt to rotate the intake camshaft so you can lock it. once that done, you have the right timing. the tool is designed to align everything flat.

 

I agree that using the straws or wire will guarantee pistons alligned. When the cams are in correct place the middle of each should have writting stamped on and be facing upwards. Turst the locking tool after that, not the current state of play as the chain may be stretched and timing already out.

 

Thanks, all, for the replies and advice. Just wanted to update in case anyone was following along.

I haven't made much progress since my last post because I just bought a house, so moving takes priority over the car for now. I'm hoping to get back into the garage next weekend.

The Mini Adventure video is great. It's a 3-part video and I actually watched almost all 3 hours of them. I got 4 skewers and dropped them into the spark plug holes to verify that my crankshaft is correct, and it is. So I unbolted the cam sprockets and rotated the cams until the text pointed up and the locking tool fit on correctly. I think I'm in good shape now.

When I get back in there, I'll attach the crank sprocket, then snug the cam sprockets and rotate the engine manually as he does in the video to check the timing.

It might be a few weeks before I can get it all buttoned up, since I'm also rebuilding the turbo while I'm doing this. Will update when I make more progress.

 

Well, I'm many many months late on my promised followup, but here we go.

The crank was definitely in the right place, as was confirmed by the depth gauges (wood skewers) in the spark plug holes.

I basically unbolted both camshaft sprockets, got the camshaft tool bolted down to the head, and installed the new timing chain, as the Mini Adventure video series illustrated. I was initially very worried about messing up the timing by removing the sprockets with the cams in slightly the wrong place, but really, with those tools it's pretty much foolproof. Which is good, because I'm a bit of a fool, and I eventually ended up installing the exhaust manifold incorrectly, and the car wouldn't start, but that's a story for a different day.

After I got the exhaust manifold installed correctly, the car started up great and has been running well ever since.

Hope this helps anyone who tries to tackle this project in the future. It's definitely a do-able DIY if you're a little bit savvy with a socket wrench.

 

Great news