woah... This is a huge update

 

Hey all,

I used to own an N14 with HPFP issues but now unfortunately own a Porsche Panamera with the same issues and remembered reading this thread. The Panamera HPFP's are very similar and made by Continental also. Mine hasn't completely failed but is showing symptoms of it failing imminently and unfortunately, like any Porsche parts, it seems that I'm going to be shelling out around £1200 which got me wondering about trying to fix mine. Is anybody closer to knowing what oil goes in these and whereabouts? I have some spare AC compressor oil knocking around and wondered if that was similar stuff? I'm thinking of maybe having a play around tomorrow but any advice is greatly appreciated!

Cheers

 

I just read this thread as well and it’s extremely informative. However, I haven’t seen any alternate solutions to pump replacement. Unless someone has another route, it appears prices for the pumps has gone back up $700+. Surprising prices haven’t gone down with so many that fail over time (economies of scale).

 

There is a guy on Facebook who claims to rebuild these pumps. I don’t know what he has figured out. Maybe we could play stupid and ask what he does. Search for High pressure pump Mini Cooper rebuilt.

 

Thanks Jakomcbean!!!

This would appear to confirm that leakage of oil is the culprit and it even provides for a special tool to confirm that oil leakage has happened. Although the tool is not cheap at around $70 to $90. Now all we need to do is to figure out how the oil is leaking and how to refill the pump. Personally I would not be too worried about the exact spec of oil. This pump looks similar to a hydraulic piston pump so any good quality hydraulic oil should work. Also if the pump is torn apart, surely it can be refilled during assembly. The factory had to do it, so why not us in our workshops?

If I understand correctly, at least one member has reported that the pumps are leaking externally and this should provide our best clue as to the source of leakage.

 

Looks like most likely oil leakage path is past item 11 (the drive flange). This is probably the best way to completely refill the chamber, by adding oil through the drive flange opening during re-assembly.

 

So having gone back and re-read this thread, it now seems obvious that the loss of oil is via the thermal compensator. I am going to buy a new pump and then attempt to refill the oil and repair (if possible) the leak on the old pump. I will also try to source the thermal compensator separately if I can find a part number on it and will post results here.

 

So as it seems this guy in Canada on Facebook has figured out exactly what goes wrong since he repairs them and has customers giving him feedback. He even claims to have repaired an eBay pump. Seems like we are near to a definite diagnosis. He is very stingy on the details of what he actually does. He is also apparently fairly rude to converse with. Sounds like he is keeping things close to his chest. Can’t say I blame him. This make me think the solution is easier than most think.

 

I agree, the solution is easier than we think and it is almost at hand. I am guessing Facebook guy has found a source for thermal compensators. They are likely quite cheap as it is just a couple of pressed tin cups that are crimped together with a spring loaded diaphragm or piston inside. Does anyone have a good photo of the numbers stamped on the compensator?

 

Will be checking mine out. Has been exhibiting the stumble symptoms,

 

Ok here is an update on my High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP).
Background Info:
2010 Mini Cooper S (N14 engine)
102,000 kms
All the usual symptoms of a failing HPFP like:
Hard cold start
Rough idling
Stalling
Misfire/backfire
Goes into Limp Mode with half-engine check light
Error codes for misfire and low fuel rail pressure
When fully warmed up, sometimes it runs ok
Did walnut blast of intake valves and installed new spark plugs and ignition coils but still no joy.

So last night, I removed the HPFP and performed the measurement on the HPFP thermal compensator as indicated by this TIS https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...nit/1VnXqS8AjN
The TIS states that any value less than 26mm is good. Well mine measured 24mm so in theory it is good. It was measured with a cold engine but in a warm garage. So currently the HPFP has been placed outdoors in -6C temperature. After about 6 hours, I will re-check the measurements. The TIS method is like a dipstick for checking the oil level inside the HPFP. I could not detect any visible signs of external oil leakage on my pump and the "dipstick" indicates the oil level is fine so my pump appears not to suffer from lack of oil but that does not rule out a pump failure since there are many other ways a pump can fail.

 

I have a old dead pump and a new slightly used one that are both out of my car. I’ll check the measurements on both and see what the difference is.

 

That would be great to compare measurements. Since the TIS measurement tool measures from the bottom of the indented surface, I also used the same surface but because my vernier caliper would not fit down into the indent, I first had to measure the depth of the indent which I found was 3 mm, and then I measured from the top of the indent down to the diaphragm and subtracted the 3mm from that measurement. Just so we are on the same page as far as measurement is concerned.

 

The cold weather (-6C) test of my thermal compensator yielded the same measurement of 24mm so the temperature difference of about 16 degrees Celsius did not affect the measurement.

 

Hopefully they will hold up rebuilt, we have not seen anything hold up with the Oasis brand ones https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ebay-hpfp.html

If we can find a source some of the internals/seals we will post up.

 

All the rebuilds that I have known fail shortly after. Heard the post where this guy claims to have success with a Chinese pump.

 

I've been researching this topic for the past several months, a seller on eBay sent me a link to a guy in Brazil who explains the failure behind these pumps. If you have a chance do you mind dropping the link for the TIS measurement tool? I have not had any luck finding it with the part number given!

Thank!

 

Sure the link has been posted here a few times. It’s at
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...nit/1VnXqS8AjN.
I would love to see that link where the failure is explained would you be able to share that with us?

 

The TIS measurement tool can be purchased here. It allows for checking the pump without removing it. I have no affiliation with the vendor.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/83302344569/

 

Mark, you can probably build one of these tools out of some brake line and throttle cable. I tried to build one out of a manual shutter release for an old 35mm camera. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it was a total fail and I spent more time on the tool than it took to remove the pump and measure it on my workbench. It took me about an hour to get the pump out and that's with me having never worked on a Mini engine before so I was working slowly and carefully.

Mark, I would also be very interested in the link to the guy in Brazil who has the pump issue all figured out. Can you please post here?

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...2&goto=newpost

Thought that was the service mode tool?

That special hook tool line is here: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/83302344569/

 

Ooops. My bad on the tool part number. Is there any chance ECSTuning can update their webpage with a photo of the tool to avoid any future confusion. The TIS is rather misleading when it comes to the part number to be used for ordering the tool. A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

No problem, we will update the part.

 

Very useful post! Thanks!

few months ago I bought new hpfp for my mini R56 and change it, but didn’t work. Then I took old valve into new hpfp but nothing. Start and immediatelly stop. Then I run with old pump and daily stoped engine at red traffic lights. Few days ago I want buy new pump at dealer but stop. I think I didn’t try old pump with new valve. I was looking for post about mini or peugeot hpfp same or not and looking for info about valve. Now I find your post what very logical and I put new valve into old pump. Earlier I measured pressure 3-6 kpa but now is show 4,8-11 kpa. How nice! Idle is not smooth but not stop and lowest pressure 4,7 kpa.
i will renew my old valve with new rings and take safe place for next time.
I’m very happy to find your post and very exiting how it will run tomorow!
thanks!

 

So my new HPFP arrived today and I installed it and the car started right up and idled perfectly. No misfires. Of course time will tell if this really cured the problems but the interesting thing for me was comparing the measurements of the old and new pumps. As you recall, the TIS said anything less than 26 mm was fine. Well, I am not sure we can rely on that as a hard and fast rule. My old pump measured 24mm but the new pump measured 19 mm. That's a huge difference. So for me, at 24 mm the car would still run but mostly in limp mode. It would appear that anything greater than 19mm indicates some loss of oil and by the time you reach 24 mm, it is time for a new pump.

Hey Jakomcbean, did you ever get around to measuring all of your old pumps? Would love to hear what you found.