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roll call, have you replaced your thermostat housing .
Stock Problems/IssuesDiscussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).
I am replacing the beast this very second. Not a bad job, except I can't get the rear tube to release! I pulled the clip but it is stuck tight.
Is there a trick I am missing?
I will say that a shop vac makes the emptying of the coolant a piece of cake... I unhooked the lower hose at the coupling near the coolant tank and stuck a shop vac hose on it and it sucked all the coolant out as neat as can be - not a drop in the housing or anywhere else. Of course there are shiny little flakes in the coolant - hoping they are leftover from the failing thermostat.
Anyway, anyone have a trick to gt the last pipe uncoupled? It is driving me bonkers.
My '08 Clubman S still had a good thermostat at 116,722 miles. I was installing a Mishimoto silicone hose kit while I am replacing the clutch. This afternoon as I was trying to slip on the last hose, between the turbo/aux pump/thermostat rigid junction, the plastic nipple on the thermostat snapped off in the hose, and then crumbled into bits. Wow. Ordered the Bremmen Parts model from ECS Tuning, but that won't ship until the 5th, so I'm stuck like chuck. Again.
Upside is that the thermostat is very easy to remove with the tranny and everything on top of the engine out of the car, so given this experience, I would definitely replace the thermostat & hoses no matter what. Cheap insurance, and a lot easier to do. That silly pipe coming from the water pump dislodged and let loose a deluge of coolant while I was pulling the thermostat, so now I've gotta try and get that back on while I'm waiting for the thermostat.
Totally frustrated with Mini at this point. The P0128's came back again after the third (in just a few months) replacement of the complete thermostat housing. Response from Mini was "Must be your thermostat housing is bad". OAT (Outside Air Temperature is now 85-90F yet my Mini STILL won't get up much over 170f degrees, and once moving settles in around 165f. Once again, a NEW MINI thermostat housing was installed (makes four new housings in four months) and the P0128 are back again. There obviously is some other cause, yet Mini's solution is, wait for it: replace the thermostat housing. Someone somewhere must have a better idea as to what can cause this problem. A new wrinkle is that now with the much warmer outside air temperature in the 80f's and 90f's, I finally turned on my air conditioner, only to find that also is not functioning. I see that failure has been listed as one possible side effect of the coolant temperature not getting up high enough (ie the P0128 code). I still think there may be something wrong with the ECU, either reading from or sending to the thermostat, the wrong data, but either there are no Mini service tools that can read that data to show it is in error, or the data is correct and they have no other idea what can cause the problem. An unresolvable problem on a car with less than 36,000 miles sure doesn't have me standing in line to buy another Mini. Once more, does anyone have any other ideas as to what can cause this problem (P0128), after the thermostat housing has been replaced 4 times and the problem reoccurs within 3 days of each replacement? At a minimum it's time to check out other Mini dealers. Currently each trip is 150 miles one way. Next closest dealer is nearly 200 miles but I guess I don't have a choice but to move on.
Odd, curious what sort of MPG are you getting ? If running that cold typically mpg's should be lower than normal.
Have you owned it since new or was it a pre-owned purchase ? Many aftermarket tunes to DME will adjust the coolant temp threshold.
Well the Mini went to the Dealer on the back of a flatbed on Monday, June 27. On Wednesday, June 29 the Dealer called to tell me that the thermostat was indeed bad and would be replaced under warranty. Bad news, the part is on national back order and will not be in until the end of July. So, we wait. If it wasn't under warranty I'd probably try and a find an aftermarket part.
I put this in a different thread but perhaps this might be a better place for it since it came up during the thermostat housing replacement.
______________
Hi everyone!
Finally finished up the job. it was the water tube leaking. Supposedly it was replaced when the water pump was done in April, but I seriously doubt that.
I've attached a couple of pictures. The o-ring and plastic remains are what I fished out of the water pump housing and you can see the end of the tube is destroyed. No wonder it was leaking.
A couple of thoughts:
I would never do the thermostat housing again without unbolting the intake manifold. It is six bolts and it is no problem removing the passenger wheel to get at the lower bolt. It took me a ratchet and a pipe for leverage to remove it, but I suspect it was gorilla'd on the last time it was off. I know most how-to's don't mention this so user's choice I guess.
Removing the manifold gives unrestricted access to the water tube and if nothing else, it was easier for me to unbolt the manifold than to try and put that stupid clip on blind (I missed it last time BYW - it felt seated but when I had the manifold unbolted it was nowhere near the grooves.)
When replacing the water tube I put lube on the entire space of the water pump housing and a little bit on the o-ring. I recommend silicone grease - I know I use it for SCUBA diving because vaseline etc. can break down the o-rings, but there are mixed notions out there.
A racquetball ball is the perfect size for the thermostat side of the water tube. It fits in the opening and gives a large area to push on with the right hand while I used my left hand to guide and twist the water pump side of the tube.
I used Pentosin Pentofrost NF coolant. I used BMW the first time through, but after it leaked out I removed the rest and was unwilling to drive the hour and a half to get more. The Pentosin lists Mini compatibility and it's blue. It is also available in store at O'Reilly 90 second from my house. Works for me.
To drain the system I removed the radiator hose on the coolant tank side and use a shop vac to drain the system. Unscrewing the bleeder screw made it drain more quickly, even with the cap off the coolant tank.
I ended up draining my system 5 times. Originally I drained it and filled it with water and Prestone flush - someone had used Dex-Cool in it. I then flushed it with water twice. I finally filled it with 50/50 BMW - which promptly leaked right out. After replacing the water tube I flushed it with water again finally filled it with 50/50 Pentosin.
Careful of brittle stuff - when removing the manifold the PVC hose snapped - totally brittle. I simply snaked a hose inside the old one and used shrink wrap to seal it. It is not perfect but I don't really have $80 for the hose and I am not in the mood to remove the manifold to replace it when it gets here. So far no CEL and it is basically a breather so it should be fine.
The hose clamps are a major PITA but if you are using regular pliers the easiest way to get a grip is to use the serrated "bottle cap opener" part of the blades keeps the clamps from slipping. Still one of the most annoying parts of the job for me - YMMV.
When replacing the manifold screw all the nuts on finger tight then torque to 11 ft/lbs. I don't have a torque wrench so I went with snug. Same thing for the thermostat housing bolts.
Finally, I can't remember what the actual procedure is, but I forgot to unscrew the bleeder screw the first time I filled the system and it won't fill properly, at least it won't for me. Unscrewing that bleeder screw while turning on the heat etc. allowed it to fill quickly and fully without major air in the system.
Thanks everyone for the help - the hardest thing is doing it the first time when you are unsure exactly what to unclip and unbolt. The thermostat housing itself is easy peasy lemon squeezy and the manifold is even easier IMHO.
BTW, the Bremman housing is EXACTLY like the stock unit that came off the car, so my advice is save your money and buy after market rather than OEM.
I put this in a different thread but perhaps this might be a better place for it since it came up during the thermostat housing replacement.
______________
Hi everyone!
Finally finished up the job. it was the water tube leaking. Supposedly it was replaced when the water pump was done in April, but I seriously doubt that.
I've attached a couple of pictures. The o-ring and plastic remains are what I fished out of the water pump housing and you can see the end of the tube is destroyed. No wonder it was leaking.
A couple of thoughts:
I would never do the thermostat housing again without unbolting the intake manifold. It is six bolts and it is no problem removing the passenger wheel to get at the lower bolt. It took me a ratchet and a pipe for leverage to remove it, but I suspect it was gorilla'd on the last time it was off. I know most how-to's don't mention this so user's choice I guess.
Removing the manifold gives unrestricted access to the water tube and if nothing else, it was easier for me to unbolt the manifold than to try and put that stupid clip on blind (I missed it last time BYW - it felt seated but when I had the manifold unbolted it was nowhere near the grooves.)
When replacing the water tube I put lube on the entire space of the water pump housing and a little bit on the o-ring. I recommend silicone grease - I know I use it for SCUBA diving because vaseline etc. can break down the o-rings, but there are mixed notions out there.
A racquetball ball is the perfect size for the thermostat side of the water tube. It fits in the opening and gives a large area to push on with the right hand while I used my left hand to guide and twist the water pump side of the tube.
I used Pentosin Pentofrost NF coolant. I used BMW the first time through, but after it leaked out I removed the rest and was unwilling to drive the hour and a half to get more. The Pentosin lists Mini compatibility and it's blue. It is also available in store at O'Reilly 90 second from my house. Works for me.
To drain the system I removed the radiator hose on the coolant tank side and use a shop vac to drain the system. Unscrewing the bleeder screw made it drain more quickly, even with the cap off the coolant tank.
I ended up draining my system 5 times. Originally I drained it and filled it with water and Prestone flush - someone had used Dex-Cool in it. I then flushed it with water twice. I finally filled it with 50/50 BMW - which promptly leaked right out. After replacing the water tube I flushed it with water again finally filled it with 50/50 Pentosin.
Careful of brittle stuff - when removing the manifold the PVC hose snapped - totally brittle. I simply snaked a hose inside the old one and used shrink wrap to seal it. It is not perfect but I don't really have $80 for the hose and I am not in the mood to remove the manifold to replace it when it gets here. So far no CEL and it is basically a breather so it should be fine.
The hose clamps are a major PITA but if you are using regular pliers the easiest way to get a grip is to use the serrated "bottle cap opener" part of the blades keeps the clamps from slipping. Still one of the most annoying parts of the job for me - YMMV.
When replacing the manifold screw all the nuts on finger tight then torque to 11 ft/lbs. I don't have a torque wrench so I went with snug. Same thing for the thermostat housing bolts.
Finally, I can't remember what the actual procedure is, but I forgot to unscrew the bleeder screw the first time I filled the system and it won't fill properly, at least it won't for me. Unscrewing that bleeder screw while turning on the heat etc. allowed it to fill quickly and fully without major air in the system.
Thanks everyone for the help - the hardest thing is doing it the first time when you are unsure exactly what to unclip and unbolt. The thermostat housing itself is easy peasy lemon squeezy and the manifold is even easier IMHO.
BTW, the Bremman housing is EXACTLY like the stock unit that came off the car, so my advice is save your money and buy after market rather than OEM.
I got the Bremmen version as well, because ECS Tuning offered free shipping for that one part, but Rock Auto also has one (although it just went out of stock): http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....441103&jsn=305
I replaced my tstat myself a few months ago and didn't change the water tube or water pump. If I replace the water pump, and remove the intake manifold, is it possible to replace the water tube without removal of the tstat? ( in other words, if the water tube inserts in to the back side of the pump, does pump removal allow enough room to back the tube out of the tstat?). Or is it possible to just loosen the tstat enough to get the water pipe out when removing the water pump?
I replaced my tstat myself a few months ago and didn't change the water tube or water pump. If I replace the water pump, and remove the intake manifold, is it possible to replace the water tube without removal of the tstat? ( in other words, if the water tube inserts in to the back side of the pump, does pump removal allow enough room to back the tube out of the tstat?). Or is it possible to just loosen the tstat enough to get the water pipe out when removing the water pump?
Thanks!
The tube itself is really not a big deal to replace and seeing so many failures I think it is cheap insurance if you are in there anyway. Especially after my experience.
I tried to just loosening the thermostat housing - it was more trouble than it was worth and in the end it was just easier to remove it and reinstall it.
I can't answer the question about the water pump for sure - it looks like the engine side of the housing is separate from the pump side so it may be that simply removing the pump isn't enough to get the tube out.
My Mini ('08 Justa) is in the shop for a different issue - -so I told the tech just to chg. the therm housing while he has it.
It went into the shop for a non-start condition. No warning, no lights, just pushed the button and - nuttin. Battery is brand new. Tech says it's a bad starter.
Evidence is mounting - after years of reliable service (and not that many miles - 80K in 8+ years), the Mini has in the past 6 months, needed: two front wheel bearings, one new rear brake rotor (warped), new starter, a thermostat housing (leak), both front struts, repair to the exhaust (crack @ cat converter)... and that's just off the top of my head. I've also replaced the battery (no surprise) and tires (it's on the third set) in the past two weeks. Now this starter & thermostat.
The engine has a rattle (since it was still in warranty - the dealer couldn't fix it after multiple attempts so they declared it "normal"), the headlight lenses are getting cloudy and yesterday I noticed condensation inside a fog light - again! The front sway bar bushings rattle over bumps and need to be replaced. Both the battery and brake master cylinder access covers have broken off and are being held on with duct tape.
I fear that my Mini love affair is fading fast, like the components on my Mini. A new car (one that has been maintained religiously, babied even) shouldn't start falling apart at 80k miles.
The last couple of months I find myself browsing new car websites just to see what's out there. Neither Mini nor BMW are on my radar. I like the Audi A3, but Audi's longevity track record is pretty dismal too. Not sure what will replace the Mini if and when... etc.
While everything you listed didn't happen to my 2010 Clubman, I've had some of those and others. As the miles accumulate on a car, one expects problems but with experience we know about how long any given part should last on a good car. I've had two successive new MINIs (also 2003 Cooper) and I have taken great care of them. I drive about 20K miles per year, mostly highway trips. But, the strange problems at relatively low mileage just got to me. The first MINI was sold at 165K and the second at 119K.
I'm ready to leave the German mindset behind and try a Japanese model for awhile so we bought a new Mazda3 iGT hatch automatic a few weeks ago. It is known for reliability and good mpg and has plenty of space for the two of us. The GT has all the bells and whistles of the MINI and more.
After almost 14 years I'm sorry to leave the MINI 'club' and I still miss the feeling of driving one when I see the cute ones in my neighborhood but I'm tired of spending too much of my travel budget on my vehicle. Adios, amigos!
Originally Posted by 33EJB
Add me to the list. 80,000 miles, give or take.
My Mini ('08 Justa) is in the shop for a different issue - -so I told the tech just to chg. the therm housing while he has it.
It went into the shop for a non-start condition. No warning, no lights, just pushed the button and - nuttin. Battery is brand new. Tech says it's a bad starter.
Evidence is mounting - after years of reliable service (and not that many miles - 80K in 8+ years), the Mini has in the past 6 months, needed: two front wheel bearings, one new rear brake rotor (warped), new starter, a thermostat housing (leak), both front struts, repair to the exhaust (crack @ cat converter)... and that's just off the top of my head. I've also replaced the battery (no surprise) and tires (it's on the third set) in the past two weeks. Now this starter & thermostat.
The engine has a rattle (since it was still in warranty - the dealer couldn't fix it after multiple attempts so they declared it "normal"), the headlight lenses are getting cloudy and yesterday I noticed condensation inside a fog light - again! The front sway bar bushings rattle over bumps and need to be replaced. Both the battery and brake master cylinder access covers have broken off and are being held on with duct tape.
I fear that my Mini love affair is fading fast, like the components on my Mini. A new car (one that has been maintained religiously, babied even) shouldn't start falling apart at 80k miles.
The last couple of months I find myself browsing new car websites just to see what's out there. Neither Mini nor BMW are on my radar. I like the Audi A3, but Audi's longevity track record is pretty dismal too. Not sure what will replace the Mini if and when... etc.
While everything you listed didn't happen to my 2010 Clubman, I've had some of those and others. As the miles accumulate on a car, one expects problems but with experience we know about how long any given part should last on a good car. I've had two successive new MINIs (also 2003 Cooper) and I have taken great care of them. I drive about 20K miles per year, mostly highway trips. But, the strange problems at relatively low mileage just got to me. The first MINI was sold at 165K and the second at 119K.
I'm ready to leave the German mindset behind and try a Japanese model for awhile so we bought a new Mazda3 iGT hatch automatic a few weeks ago. It is known for reliability and good mpg and has plenty of space for the two of us. The GT has all the bells and whistles of the MINI and more.
After almost 14 years I'm sorry to leave the MINI 'club' and I still miss the feeling of driving one when I see the cute ones in my neighborhood but I'm tired of spending too much of my travel budget on my vehicle. Adios, amigos!
I'll second that! Every time the MINI has been down, the Honda motorcycle stood at the ready, and took up the slack like a good battle buddy. I'm sorry, no MINI, BMW, Audi, Merc, VeeDub, or whatever has a driving experience so amazing that it makes up for poor reliability. I toured the Mazda factory in Hiroshima, Japan back in 2009, and saw the Mazda Acela (Mazda 3 in North America) being built. They're solid cars. I'm in a toss up for the Mazda 6 and Honda Accord...
defective thermostat and Water pump - CLASS ACTION
On my 2011 Mini - replaced thermostat housing at 38K for $465, then 1 week later the water pump went up for another $634. There is a class action suit - more info at www.waterpumpsettlement.com or contacting Stephen M Harris 866-317-8668. Good luck all! Rich
My CEL went out and has not come back for about 100 miles now. What does this mean, that the thermostat is fine for now? I can't take it in for repair if there's no code for them to scan. And from the class action lawsuit information, it says the water pump has a warranty for 7 years or 84K miles, whichever comes first. I don't trust my dealer service at all, can anyone validate that this warranty is fact?
And from the class action lawsuit information, it says the water pump has a warranty for 7 years or 84K miles, whichever comes first. I don't trust my dealer service at all, can anyone validate that this warranty is fact?
Guessing they found out the OEM "plastic water pumps" at time of factory build don't last. Yes, I did hear there is an extended warranty with the replacement one, and being made of cast metal now. The metal ones have been on MINI shelves since 2013 ( I think )
Mine is in the shop right now - a well-equipped independent shop, because it's 200 miles, one way, the nearest dealer. The indy shop has a BMW code reader, and it's showing nothing.
No leaks, no drivability or performance issues. No check engine light. I would not know I had a problem if I didn't have an OBD II reader connected (UltraGauge) which shows my coolant temps dropping to about 170-175 F after warm up (and NOT just with the AC fan on high, Sport mode, or other special circumstances).
The indy shop tells me the fan is on all the time when the engine is running, but I hadn't noticed that.
Has anyone else replaced a thermostat when they had no leaks and no codes?
I sure hope it IS the thermostat, because it's going to cost me $640 to find out.
I believe the shop is trying to get a genuine MINI part - can anyone tell me if the part has been redesigned or in any way improved since 2010?
Has anyone else found that replacing the thermostat stopped the fan from running all the time, or is that possibly a seperate issue?
Mine is in the shop right now - a well-equipped independent shop, because it's 200 miles, one way, the nearest dealer. The indy shop has a BMW code reader, and it's showing nothing.
No leaks, no drivability or performance issues. No check engine light. I would not know I had a problem if I didn't have an OBD II reader connected (UltraGauge) which shows my coolant temps dropping to about 170-175 F after warm up (and NOT just with the AC fan on high, Sport mode, or other special circumstances).
The indy shop tells me the fan is on all the time when the engine is running, but I hadn't noticed that.
Has anyone else replaced a thermostat when they had no leaks and no codes?
I sure hope it IS the thermostat, because it's going to cost me $640 to find out.
I believe the shop is trying to get a genuine MINI part - can anyone tell me if the part has been redesigned or in any way improved since 2010?
Has anyone else found that replacing the thermostat stopped the fan from running all the time, or is that possibly a seperate issue?
Not sure about the rest of your questions... but... I had my thermostat done at an independent shop just down the road from my house. The guy repairs all kinds of imported cars. Total cost was a little over $200 - parts, labour and all new BMW coolant included. Your $640 estimate sounds high to me.
Not sure about the rest of your questions... but... I had my thermostat done at an independent shop just down the road from my house. The guy repairs all kinds of imported cars. Total cost was a little over $200 - parts, labour and all new BMW coolant included. Your $640 estimate sounds high to me.
I hear that! It IS high, no doubt. This is a modern, high tech shop that has all the appearance of a dealership; by reputation, it's the best shop around - and they are priced accordingly. I knew that when I took it in. Having said that, I was expecting $350-450, so $640 was a shock.
But they have done the diagnostic work and they have ordered the thermostat, so what am I going to do?
I keep telling myself, it's still less than 2 months car payments, trying to put it into some kind of perspective.
Lacking access to a local MINI dealer, I am still shopping for a local independent shop I can work with. Pretty sure it's not going to be these guys. Anybody have any suggestions for SW Missouri (Springfield, Republic, Nixa, Ozark), I'd love to hear it!
I hear that! It IS high, no doubt. This is a modern, high tech shop that has all the appearance of a dealership; by reputation, it's the best shop around - and they are priced accordingly. I knew that when I took it in. Having said that, I was expecting $350-450, so $640 was a shock.
But they have done the diagnostic work and they have ordered the thermostat, so what am I going to do?
I keep telling myself, it's still less than 2 months car payments, trying to put it into some kind of perspective.
Lacking access to a local MINI dealer, I am still shopping for a local independent shop I can work with. Pretty sure it's not going to be these guys. Anybody have any suggestions for SW Missouri (Springfield, Republic, Nixa, Ozark), I'd love to hear it!
Here is a helpful video for those wishing to perform the thermostat housing replacement on Gen 2 MINIs. Please ask if you have any questions!
Here is a helpful video for those wishing to perform the thermostat housing replacement on Gen 2 MINIs. Please ask if you have any questions!
Drive Hard. Drive Safe. Keep Grinning.
Yeah, I do some repairs and maintenance on my R56 Justa, but after reading what others had to say about replacing their thermostats, I was reluctant to tackle this one. Some say it's easy enough, but others reported severely limited access to fasteners, accidentally breaking plastic parts, problems with bleeding all the air out, and continuing problems with check codes after they replaced the thermostat.
Even ordering the right part seemed iffy - do I need the special adaptor cable, or not? Also it's 93 F in my garage, right now, and humid!
I noticed at about a minute and 35 seconds into your video the guy is marking electrical connections to make reconnection easy - but the video didn't show unplugging the connections. Looking at mine, I couldn't see how they work. Do they just pull off, or are there some kind of tabs that need to be released first? I figured if I wasn't clever enough to disconnect the electrics, I was in over my head, so I hired it out to the pros.
I watched enough of the video to confirm my suspicions that I don't want to do this right now.
Short version: you may get switched to another coolant, and worse, you may get a mixture of your old coolant and the new.
Detaills:
No MINI dealer nearby, so I had my thermostat replaced by a boutique independant.
When I dropped it off, I mentioned there was a gallon of MINI coolant in the back, in case they didn't have any MINI-approved antifreeze.
When I picked it up, I noticed an item on the bill ($640!) for "HOAT" coolant, $17. I was told it is manufactured by a local company (Products Plus) which recycles antifreeze, distilling it down to glycol, then adding back the additives. So far, I have not been able to determine xactly what additives are used.
They assured me that this product would be fine for my MINI because they use it in Mercedes trucks all the time. When I asked for documentation that it was approved for use in my car, they had none.
It was obvious that the new coolant had been mixed with my factory fluid. Of course the mfg of the universal HOAT claims it can be mixed with anything. Which is a good thing, because they don't sell the product retail, so if I need to top up my coolant on a road trip, I'll have to use something else.
Bottom line, if you want to be sure to stick to the factory coolant, either take it to the dealer or get real clear with the indy about the details.
The independent shop has agreed to flush out the universal HOAT and replace it with my MINI coolant. They get their universal HOAT pre-diluted, so they may not have distilled water, so I guess I'll have to supply that, too.
Yep.
'09 R55S ~40k miles.
Thermostat housing replaced in February.
Timing chain, tension, and guide rails replaced at both 14k & 39k.
And I just replaced my water pump (still working out the trapped air).
STRONGLY agree have them tow and fix it
