That's akin to saying it's okay for blacks to use the 'N' word but Caucasians can't.

 

If someone steps out of line I would prefer that everyone make it obvious what the issue is and not use an acronym. The issues that arise seem to go on if people aren't called out directly...and moderators have to step in to try to sort it out.

 

Particularly with IB4TL, which indicates that a moderator is about to step in...

 

this is still one of my favorite pics

 

Confucius say ...

 

Then why not IB4TM? Personally I don't want to see thread locked unless there looks to be no way to save/clean them up.

As for Gnatster's concern about giving everyone power on the site. One of my takeaways in this thread has been that over-moderation has occurred. So what I'm grappling with is what is the trip wire that constitutes when actual moderation is required and when the community will take care of itself. For example...

If I was to make a change to the site guidelines that dropped the whole excessive speed/street racing it would be because I have confidence that members of the site, seeing someone else posting that they were going 135 on the interstate, would jump in to effectively moderate that situation. That doesn't mean that infractions would be issued, etc. but it would mean that, as a community, people would say that is being irresponsible, we don't like it, it doesn't represent that community that MINI owners are, you are making all MINI owners look bad, etc. Leaving the original post with all of the "that's not ok" posts stand as an archive to both the OP and others who happen upon. This acts as one of the social norms of the site...a rule that is socially enforced.

An another example is that I don't always have a police car monitoring my street. If someone comes flying down the road I, and other neighbors that are out will tell that person to slow down. While I know that there will be many cases where moderation will be needed I would like to see that those on the site take up a bit of this as well...especially since it effects their enjoyment of the site.

Thoughts?

Mark

 

Not sure if you're calling me on my response or referring to the other guy's earlier post.

His original post, that basically said, "You obviously have no taste, and belong in the 'gay' thread", was offensive and homophobic.

His coming back later and saying, "Sorry, that was said with a wink" doesn't make the original post any less homophobic, or any less offensive.

That's what I meant.

 

Long enough, I guess. I just love the old comics. The had a way of being nasty and obnoxious while being classy at the same time. One of my all time favorites are "The conversation with a 1000 year old man" by Mel Brooks and Rob Reiner. Fantastic stuff.

 

One thing I would like to see is some leeway in staying on topic. I see threads as conversations. And as such they should flow and evolve. If it happens to evolve into something else, so what? Perhaps the original topic has been addressed and exhausted and now people just want to jawbone a little. That's what contributes to the "community" feeling.

 

It was even funnier with Carl Reiner

 

Wise ****. To the ignore button!!!

 

We agree. His saying that he neglected to include a happy face does nothing to make it any more acceptable.

 

Does that mean I can get my 25 points removed? Had I read the site guidelines carefully, I never would have even considered posting what I did.

When I was cited for "street racing", I was actually accelerating in a normal fashion, and had there been a police officer present, he/she would likely not have been concerned about me, but the jerk next to me revving his engine and having a tinted cover over his license plate.

As far as that goes, One can simply change a post to say "I was going 135 on the Autobahn" instead of "I was going 135 on Interstate 95". Is one more acceptable than the other to post?

 

For me it's scary to do this. I have been sorely tempted many times and have actually posted. Then edited the post myself because I thought someone would get upset with me for challenging them.

Case in point, the whole caps lock issue in a thread recently. When it went racial I wanted to call the guy out on why was his ignoring a rule/guideline a racial issue but I didn't.

Mediating/moderating is an art and not all of us have what it takes to do it well and even-handedly.

Just my thoughts.

 

The problem is that people subscribe to technical threads because they're looking for answers. It's very frustrating to get notification of a post in a subscribed thread, and to check the thread only to find someone has posted something of no value regarding the subject. It's also frustrating to do a search, find a thread which might be helpful, and then have to read through pages of banter looking for an answer.

 

Let me preface by saying that I have never really felt all that over-MODded. I know others have so I say give it a test run. I am not sure if it would work I think there is a risk of the power going to some people's heads & there is the possibility of some turning into monster pseudo-MODS thinking that it is their God given right & duty to jump in & nitpick every time somebody says something that conflicts with their morality meter. But ya never know til ya try it

 

I think you have what it takes ,let it fly !

 

Is it too late to reply to this? I didn't think I was away from a computer for that long. Geez.

The only problem with having other members do the policing is that it will clutter the thread with off-topic chatter. Depending on the thread this may or may not be a good thing... in Off-Topic, it may not be a big deal but if it's a topical thread where there's still active, relevant discussion going on, it would just be distracting.

 

The most important thing about listening is patience. How can there be distraction in listening? There can only be impatience.

 

to quote an old rule of sales....."you have two ears and one mouth....use them in that order"

 

Don't forget about the 10 fingers.

 

Thanks, Mark, for making a statement that at least does not support unclear communication.

The following is not about NAM, but internet communication in general. If that is too far off-topic, then you can moderate it out if you like.

Unclear communications are a waste of everyone's time. If each of us took a bit more time in our writing (including me) all of us would get a lot more communicating done in a much shorter time. That is because in a forum, one good writer saves each of many readers a great deal of time.

I suppose it is not cool to not like all of the 3,000,000-or-so abbreviations, acronyms and shortcut means of expression used by some experienced web users, but I Am So Sick Of These Stupid Abbreviations (IASSOESA) that so many seem to use that it would be too soon if I never saw another one.

Clarity is critical to good communication. A very early post in this thread (by gnatster, I believe) addressed the compression of communication that has been caused by the internet as a factor in creating a volatile and sometimes unfreindly environment (not just on NAM, but all over the web). I agree, and I think that the acronyms just make that even worse. It is good to take TIME to write, because it makes us THINK more about what we are writing, and so, to consider it more carefully; and THINKING longer about what we write usually has the added benefit of making the writing clearer.

Another communication problem is that of the several folks who think that their really bad writing habits and various bizzarre and obnoxious writing affectations are characteristics of which they shoud be proud! I had to wonder at another earlier post that effectively stated that words' definitions aren't important, and that it is a GOOD thing for people to use words that actually mean something other than what the person intends; and that a dictionary would be better used as a door stop! I do not undertand so many persons having such an aversion to sing accurate and precise language. Do these people WANT to NOT be understood? I don't understand how poor word usage is "easy". It is not easy for a reader of poorly written language to understand what the writer is trying to communicate.

One of the most frequent causes of conflict is poor communication. If posters would...
a) actually READ earlier posts before jumping into threads without understanding what they are about
b) take a little more time to think about what they are writing
c) TRY to use words and language so that they will be better understood by others (the purpose of communication) rather than as a means of gratifying themselves or feeding their narcissistic characters
...then this and every other forum would be better off.

 

I thought your post was fine. Got the point across, embarrassed the original poster, and brought the thread back into check.

I don't really consider what he posted to be "Offensive", distasteful maybe, but crude jokes are part of life.

To be completely honest I found the thread he linked to be more surprising than what he posted. The OP was merely looking to make a few friends, and he was greeted with a bombardment of homophobia and rudeness.

 

I can see that point as well. That's my point about asking about this particular post. Because of the wide range of view points on the site (wide-ranging demographics) exactly where do we draw the line? I'm specifically wondering if what I posted is considered appropriate by some and overmoderation by others? If it isn't then what is different about my post than when other mods (or I) have been accused of overmoderating?

I'm trying to determine if there is a balance point that will seem like reasonable moderation intervention and still maintain a civil and friendly atmosphere on the site. I really appreciate the feedback!

Mark

 

I think it's the level of moderation, not so much OVER Moderation. Like a car, moderation has a throttle. There's a difference between what you posted, and say, instant infraction with no explanation whatsoever. As a member of the community he offended with that joke, I vote no infraction. It didn't offend me at all, I've grown accustomed to hearing jokes like that from younger demographics. Simply put, they have no tact.

I've always believed that free speech should trump being nice. Sometimes crude comments offer insight into what a person is really like. Was what he said childish? Indeed it was, but living in this wonderful country gives us the right to say pretty much whatever we want. We offend people, we get offended, it's a viscous cycle, but it's the world we live in. I think as humans, we lose a lot of perception and definition when we filter ourselves down to these PC nut-jobs many people on major TV have become.

I think your response was clean cut, not overly harsh, and to me at least, seemed like it was a lot more embarressing than "Infraction issued, 25 points, cease and desist immediately :impatient". When I see that type of response to something someone posts I usually just sit there like .

I'm kind of with Gnatster as far as "Deputizing" members of NAM to police the streets (In this case forums). We already have some of that, and it usually just ends up being a pissing match. I find that avoiding something you don't like is a lot more civil than calling someone out on it. We all do stupid stuff in our lives, someone driving 135 MPH on streets with other cars is out of their mind, period. I think taking the approach many other forums take (Segregating said discussions) works better than having members get into a bi*ch fest over it though. I think you'd end up creating MORE work for yourself with that approach.