That is uncalled for and demeaning...

 

you go to jail now for taking of fast at a red. (atleast in texas) My two friends did not go over the speed limit, they just took off rather fast at a light to 40. Cop got them for racing and one of their license is suspended this was at 12 at night and no one around. I've also had a cop come to my house giving me a verbal warning for driving fast as he "heard through the grapevine" I was driving fast in the twisties. It is better not to talk abot street racing/speeding on BIG sites like NAM Imo

 

I've said this in other feedback threads here and I'll say it again in this one and it's not directed at you per se Haemish (please understand that). Sometimes it's healthy for both moderators and for members to either rotate new people into the mod role or for a longtime mod to take a break from being 'responsible' and just enjoy being a member again. It does a few things....it gives the mod a mental break (well deserved!), hopefully a fresh perspective and last but not least, it keeps things fresh on the forum. New faces, new energy. Take a sabbatical and come back if you want.

I wouldn't suggest this if I haven't done the same myself as a moderator. Surprisingly, your outlook changes once you release the tension of being responsible. (goaljnky will no doubt say there are other ways to release the tension but that's not for a PG-13 thread )


Heck....one of the best things we've done elsewhere was give a 'troublemaker' branded member responsibility for an off-topic forum as moderator. Let's just say they were less 'trouble' after being on the receiving end

 

Well.... yeah, but.... I believe that in the interest of discouraging talk of street racing (in the hopes of preventing folks from getting caught up in the talk and then wanting to partake), the zero-tolerance policy is enforced, or at least attempted. And zero-tolerance means that even though the speeds may not reach really high numbers, if two drivers are vying with each other, knowingly, to get somewhere first or to just get ahead of the other person, then they can be considered to be racing. It's different than if you've been stuck behind a slow car for a while and then you finally get an opportunity at a light to jump out ahead and pass them. In that instance, the other driver most likely doesn't consider himself or herself to be racing with you. Now, if that other driver notices your attempt to get ahead, and then floors it to prevent you passing, then the two of you are racing. Your actions (trying to get ahead of the other car) are inciting the other driver to race you. May not be your intent, but that's what's happened.

I think the intent of editing or citing posts about friendly, spirited, lower speed competitions is to avoid inciting an escalation of speed competition on the street:

"Yesterday, this guy in a GTI tried to pass me, but I blew him off."

"Oh yeah, well the other day I smoked a Mustang GT. Showed him."

"LOL! Some guy in a riced out Integra was revving at me at the light. All he saw was my taillights."

...and so on.

A thread like that would make some readers want to go out and see how big a fish they could fry, so they could then boast about their "accomplishment". Discouraging such behavior is a good thing, imho.

 

 

As much as I am for freedom to say what you want with what could reasonably considered social norms (hows that for ambiguous) I have to agree with the quoted post. In this day and age and with impressionable younger folks about it's just not in good form to discuss the matter. Better we all don't broach the subject at all then try and find where the line is.

 

It's people's choice to talk about it though, law enforcement can come to your house and talk to you about whatever he wants (You can also choose not to talk to him if you please), he can't write you a ticket unless he witnesses the event. It's also little more cut and dry in a city like Los Angeles with 13 million people and 2,000 cops, than a town with 257 people, a sheriff, and 3 deputies .

I never said that you can do burnouts at a stoplight and nothing will happen (The very definition of Exhibition of Speed includes spinning your tires) I was merely trying to say, that posting on an internet forum that you did so can't get anyone in trouble.

There is a difference between a "Speed Contest" and "Exhibition of Speed".

Speed Contest, as defined by Sec. 23109 of the California Vehicle Code:
A motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.

Exhibition of Speed is much more vague, and it's basically an officers choice.

 

First you got to get them to talk about their feelings. Pace your self. Once you get them comfortable, then...

 

It's not NAM's responsibility to teach younger driver's that street racing is stupid, it's their parents. Many car forums have implemented ways to deal with street racing (By separating the forum from everything else, to isolate any issues) and have absolutely no problems.

 

I'm going to iggy you if you keep saying 'iggy', I keep thinking you want us to give you Ellen's ex dog. :impatient

Thanks Mark for your efforts - I'll have to read this thread when I have few hours and a few beers.

 

I cede to the master.

 

I couldn't agree more that today's young people have an altered sense of reality when it comes to driving at the limit. That's the very reason I take it to the legal venues (Track/Autocross)

While I believe in the above, I also believe that people should be able to talk about it if they wish. I can't tell you how many times i've seen someone make a seemingly innocent comment with the next post:

"Street Racing, Infraction issued, NAM has a zero tolerance policy for such behavior, cease immediately" in typical robot-like fashion. All that does is bring down other members. I have no interest in posting after reading something like that, the excitement of contribution is all gone. It deflates people. I feel like i'm being treated like a toddler.

As others have said previously NAM moderation really lacks that human element. Understanding, compassion, etc, all quality elements that contribute to a positive atmosphere.

An easier way to deal with the above would be to simply say "Hey guys *Insert random mod's introduction here*, we try not to talk about racing topics on here, it just causes problems, and we don't want to encourage it... thanks!". No need to slap people on the wrist like a 5 year old, it's positive, gets the point across, and 99% of the time, accomplishes the same thing!

 

Basically true, but it's also not a requirement that NAM give tacit approval to street racing by allowing posts talking about it.

And anyway, what's wrong with NAM taking on the responsibility of teaching younger drivers that street racing is stupid/dangerous? If the site owner/moderator(s) wants to be an educator in that area, why not? If a kid's parents aren't bothering to teach their kid some responsibility, maybe someone else should. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Because contrary to many adults beliefs, teenagers do it anyway. Reading about a race off a stoplight isn't going to make someone want to go out and do it, if they're itching that bad, they were likely to do it anyway. I'm a fan of having everything out in the open, and telling people WHY doing something isn't appropriate. You're not sheltering your kids from anything. Most 5 year olds now a days know every swear word there is. Most recently a MIDDLE SCHOOL in Maine began issuing birth control and prophylactics to their students after dozens of 11 and 12 year olds were coming in to the school nurse and telling her that they are sexually active.

Today's youth are 13 going on 30. Youth are establishing work ethic, getting jobs, coming out of the closet, having sex, experimenting with drugs, etc upwards of 10 years before they did in the early 90's. Sheltering your kids from real life only serves to peak their curiosity. I'm turning 21 in 2 weeks, I HATE alcohol, i've never gotten drunk, have no plans to, and I’ve never touched a drug in my life. Why? Because it was all available to me when I was younger, and I watched what it did to my peers and collegues.

If I wanted to drink, there was alcohol in the house. If I wanted to use drugs, you could buy them at school, my parents didn't give me an 10PM bedtime and a 9PM curfew. I was out until 2-3 in the morning at 16, because they knew that I was responsible, and I wasn't going to get into trouble.

This thread is already off topic enough, I don't think we need to start going back and forth on parenting issues. I work with kids all the time at work, I see plenty of egregious mistakes in parenting, many of which impact kids lives horribly.

 

The concept of rotation is a good idea but its the implementation that is troubling. Identifying quality people to rotate, get them trained, get the forums updated so that they rotate in and the others out...It would be very time consuming for me to do that except maybe on a yearly or 18 month basis.

That said if we had a good pool of people to work from it might be doable.

Mark

 

you don't do everybody at once, but stagger it (Like mid-term elections for Congress). the veterans mentor the n00bs.....no need for admin oversight. we've seen it takes no more than a few weeks at most for the new ones to get up to speed on the basics, though we encourage a consultative approach to managing things (at all times actually). Though not required, getting feedback from your peers within the mod forum before moderating is a good thing as there's instant oversight in a sense and members learn that actions aren't taken singly by mods. Sometimes, it's not needed in the case of spam or obviously abusive posting....one shot one kill for those

 

"Tweaking noses a bit" I can understand as long as people realize it is being delivered as such. Perhaps it would be helpful if you made it a hair more obvious so that people don't take your comments as seriously as they have been.

Because even with a bridge, you do it in a short period of time then its in the public record, on the news, in the paper, on the radio...you've served to spread the word and its time to move on. At this point even if people don't use search and are browsing the site they will come across your opinions.

 

Your welcome. Let's see if we can get this off on a good footing now.

Mark

 

It really comes down to developing a pool of potential moderators. Ideally I would like to have a good pool of moderators as I REALLY want to do some strategic work for the site (software development for things like club directories, a wheel database, events, and a lot of other stuff). Having sufficient moderation coverage and knowing that I don't have to get involved in every little issue that comes up would allow me to focus on these projects which will ultimately benefit everyone on the site.

 

I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head....people who've shown they have the right demeanor for this type thing (in my opinion obviously....others may not agree, but it's good to have varied opinions on the mod staff). Whether they're willing or not....well, that's not my bag

an example - we developed a pool by starting a thread asking interested members to post (in one paragraph or less), what they'd bring to the table. Take those that respond, start a poll, let the general membership vote on it. We chose two from member votes and two from private mod forum discussions...sort of the constitutional design of the bi-cameral legislature, or the electoral college if you will.

 

Members: 41,715

 

So PM me and let me know who you are thinking of. I'll, at least, like to see who you are thinking of. Thanks!

Mark

 

Yes...and we're gaining an average of 35 new members per day. Some days we have as many as 60 new ones.

 

I had the same idea as PGT. With a twist. Have you considered making the mods anonymous? That way when they want to post from their chest under their own names it will not be taken as a mod post. And when they post as a mod it will be clear that it's a mod post. It might eliminate some of the ego issues. And it might also prevent the buddying up to the mods, not that I have seen a lot of that.

 

NAM Black Ops Mod. muhahahahaha.