What is wrong here on NAM
 

Seems that there is some discontent here on NAM, some see it, some don't, some don't care. So lets hear about it, don't be rude, just constructive in what you post here.

I'll start. I see to much about "ME" in a lot of posts, not how do " WE ' make things work so we can get along.

This is not about seeing life through rose coloured glasses, but just showing respect, and keeping a sense of community.

Mark
:cool:

I feel there is a different level of respect between groups of members, or clicks as it may be. There are certain members that quickly jump on another member for a "guideline" issue, but in doing so, they themselves are violating the guideline of respect. People should not be so eager to quote the rules, but instead, help other members by asking guided questions. Support each member, new, old....and don't always tell someone to use the search function. That drives me crazy. I have been on the site for a LONG time, and sometimes, when I search, I can't find what I am looking for. Someone posting "have you tried a search?"...always makes me shudder...I would rather see members just offer a helping hand, and guide a member to threads by assisting with a search. Something like, "in a quick search, I was able to find a few threads you might find helpful, and here they are: www.... www... www..."

I also think that the 2 schools of modifications should show more respect for each other, the performance mods and the aesthetic mods. We all have our own style, and we should support each other, and the joy we get from making our cars individual...beit with graphics, or with custom subframe adjustments, etc.

there's so much negative energy on NAM compared to every other forum I'm on (and I'm in a moderator role on one and we all know that's a thankless job where you never make anybody happy :lol: ).

one thing that we don't tolerate elsewhere which has become the norm on NAM....grapping on for sale threads. :( too many cooks in the kitchen....none there to actually do the cooking, only pointing out that it's being done wrong (as Jon mentioned above). This goes way beyond listing a price (or forgetting to). These people aren't actually interested in buying, only interested in being negative for negativity's sake.

I get dozens of PM's a week asking about my car. I tend to only peruse the classifieds here and tend to post helpful info and my mod threads on m|u because of this general feeling on NAM. I wish it were different...I love my car and love to talk tech.

I must be staying out of the right threads :razz: cause the ones I have been checking on have been pretty happy :grin:

that's exactly the point though....NAM is generally not an open place to discuss issues. Only :grin: threads need apply.

I try to just stick to being "Dolores the Door Greeter" - it's safe..:grin:

But I agree with what's been said already. Been posting here for a while and sometimes, I find it easier to just not post because my Mother taught me that old saying "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it".

By all means, people have the right to their opinions, but sometimes in a forum like this, it's hard to "read" what some really mean in their posts.

Donna:cool: :grin: :cool:

I haven't noticed anything myself either other than the odd blips that seem to happen now and again. That said, I do spend most of my time in OT. If discussing more complex MINI issues seems a problem, that's not good.

I'm mostly an OT poster so I am all about the cutting up, BSing, & such. I have gotten some great help when I needed it here on NAM but I don't have much to contribute other than a detailing write up every so often so I just stick to what I know best & that's mostly OT. I would insert a flipping you off smiley to make you feel better but I think I would get in trouble for it http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...es/neener2.gif

:lol: see? this is what NAM is missing. A sense of humor outside of the OT forums.

It seems to me that most people are really helpful on NAM but time to time it does get mean spirited. I am even guilty of this but I try to catch myself. I have posted or made a comment in this sort of manner and decided not to hit submit. I say to myself, what is this going to accomplish. It is sometimes intimidating and I may decide not to ask a question or add a comment just because of some of the responses I might get. As a member, I enjoy the information of the community but sometimes I feel like I should take a break but I keep coming back to hear someone stoked about picking their car up on Saturday or a cool mod their proud of. :)

see, you should feel free to speak your mind, without being a "finger pointer", etc, or being afraid that you will get squished ;)

amen brother

I have those exact same feelings, fearful of asking a question or making a comment.:thumbsup:

One potential contributor might be the success of NAM itself. It's pretty safe to assume that the population of NAM members has steadily grown since its inception (I see that the record online presence occurred just this past summer). With more posters posting, new threads tend to drop off the front page fairly rapidly unless they stimulate a series of responses. People naturally like to see their threads take on a life of their own.

And what's the best way to stimulate replies? Initiate a thread with a provocative title -- something that will get noticed in the pack; something that is likely to rankle some folks and prod them into a reply. It then starts to look like nuclear fission, with one pointed reply stimulating two or more confrontational responses, which breeds additional responses, and so forth. And all the while, the thread with the provocative title keeps popping back up to the top of the page, ready to be exposed to the masses anew.

Even if the obnoxious thread goes into dormancy, someone somewhere along the line eventually discovers it months later, posts a reply, and then the cycle cranks up again...

Mark - thanks for starting this thread. I've seen a lot of issues over the years and have my opinions on what has caused them, how we might fix them, etc. but I would really like to get some constructive feedback on where people see the problems to be. As the moderators are aware I've been trying to solicit a lot of feedback to see if we can improve things on the site. Some of these are services we can provide through the site and some are just related to the general tone we would like to cultivate (helpful, lighthearted, and friendly...like a close community).

With that said being said we welcome your feedback :thumbsup:

Mark

Gee, I miss the discontent. That may be because I accept the discontented and realize that there is room for contentious, which for some people is just part of their life style. I just leave a thread which doesn't fit my style or mood. That's pretty simple.

I don't know how to use all of the tools effectively and have rarely been chastized but when I have been I haven't taken it personnally. Some people place a high value on efficiency. I'm here most of the time as a hobby; even when I'm looking for useful information it is for my hobby.

I love some of the repetitive threads. Life isn't about the answers it is about the questions. How lonely it would be to have all of your questions answered just by searching past threads! It would be like a 50s sci-fi flick, finding products to meet your needs in abandoned stores in cities without people.

I find NAM to be a better and more active group than other forums I participate within. My bad!

I have been around through the good times, and there is a distinct difference between now and say about 6 months ago. Just for the obvious:
> first, it seems to me that the number of people using the forums is just less than before -- fewer postings, fewer threads, etc.
> second, it seems that the "first wave" of MINI owners, who were some of the real mainstays of the community, are not around as much as they used to be. Doc. O, for example, is not present as much. Likewise with Ryephile, Tony B, and many others who were the "pioneers" in the modding pages. some have gone elsewhere, (such as MIch MINI, for example) but others have just gone to MUCH lower profile, or dropped out of the larger community, which includes later arrivals such as myself, and newbies who have purchased used cars or have gone on to an '07 car. I miss the good old boys such as those I listed above, because they were such great sources, so even tempered, and so kind to less knowledgeable folks.
> third, some real schisms seem to have developed around which vendor people support(ed) or not. Vendor-related issues such as questions raised about quality, or whether one person's good or bad experience with a product or customer service REALLY seem to have opened wounds that I think some people never got over. I have to say I don't understand that whole mind set. I know that most of the folks who support MINI aftermarket stuff are small outfits, and so, they may have a lot of their personal pride at stake in the products they design make and sell. But business is still business. Retail is not for the thin of skin.
> fourth, I think that the 2007 model year change really made a negative difference at NAM. IMO there is not anything that the site owners or guardians could have done differently to have lessened the impact of this move on BMW's part. It just kind of changed the makeup of the MINI community. the R56 is a good car too. But it is different. When it comes to modding the community will now forever be split in two, because although the cars are similar, they are different enough so that what is relevant to one group is NOT to the other. Neither is better or worse than the other, just different.
> When a community is shrinking or becoming diluted (not the larger MINI community, but the community of MINI owners who are interested in other MINI owners) the expectation of lively discussions anytme day or night begins to dwindle, and as it does, interest will begin to lag a smore "regulars" begin to notice that the traffic is less and less interesting. "yes, I see that a newbie is asking "why not a lightened crank pulley?" AGAIN?? I'm sick of answering that one -- YOU take it.While I certainly don't know even a tenth of what there is to know about a MINI, I know a lot more than I DID, so frankly, my questions are fewer and farther between, and they are less likely to be answered by someone on NAM, and more likely to be answered by an acquaintance I've made in the community, outside of the NAM boards. that's nothing against NAM, and certainly nothing against other NAM members. It is just a fact. I would hypothesize that there are many in my shoes (or similar ones).
> The "new" is worn off. The MINI is now coming up on its 7th birthday, and so, while it is not old enough to be a classic, it is also not young enough to be a mystery either. The "best in class" trophies from auto mags and orgs have gathered considerable dust, and more R53 are leaving warranty and free service status meaning that familiarity is beginning to breed contempt among soe owners who happened to get a Friday afternoon car instead of a Wednesday morning car. (I have been blessed, I am happy to say.) Again, that is just a fact. Many of these folks, while they still enjoy the ride, are not so in love as they first were, and perhaps juust not inclined to wax rhapsodic over what they might now see as "the little pig" instead of "the little beast".
> some of the vitriolics I've read got VERY personal and very nasty (IMO). Controversy is good. Conflict is just ugly. I have never observed that NAM has tolerated a lot of this, and the sinners have been banished appropriately. However, it sometimes hads not been a pleasant thing to read, and it is totally unproductive. I will not cite examples, as I am certain it is not necessary. I am sure this is one thing that has sent away many of the good old boys that I have always enjoyed -- to find better things to do with their time. I don't like ingrates or crude rude jerks. Why should anyone else?
> the new MINIs seem to me to be much more expensive new. I probably wouldn't buy one now. Perhaps this is a different demographic that are buying the R56? Not better or worse, just different? I don't know how that matters, but it might somehow.

I'm out of time and speculations for now,

Hope this helps. Best of luck. I would surely like to see the same vitality that was here 18 months ago return.

You make some excellent points, all valid, all very well thought out. I too miss the old school members that were a wealth of info...and held a different sense of respect for all members.

Thank you for your time an energy that you gave in order to put some of the issues into words, and it was done so well.

I really like this point...even though it has been asked before, it is new to someone else. I have been told that there are no such things as stupid questions, although on this forum, it seems there are (according to those that only believe in using the search function, and nothing should be posted unless you exhausted the search. :roll:). Someone posting that creates a sense of negativity, "did you search, do a search, this was answered back in 2005, sheesh"....comments like that show a complete lack of community, and the negativity is so great for the new member, it really affects the perception of the site as a whole. Sure, for some, they have answered the question over and over...and if they are frustrated, don't take it out on the new guy, or even the old guy that missed the thread 6 months ago...let someone else take it and post up an answer...no need to bash someone for "not knowing".

Yeah, telling a new forum member to use the search feature is probably the most common annoying response I find in forums all over the net. If you were chatting with someone at work and they asked you a question about one of your hobbies, would you tell them to go read a book, or would you engage them in some friendly conversation? The analogy isn't perfect, but I think it shows a difference in attitiude. I find the the best responses to these types of questions include a simple friendly answer accompanied by a link to a thread or search results; something like: "Yeah, the bonnets get REAL hot on the R56 MCSs cause of the turbocharger. Some folks have even had their scoop get deformed. In a search for "hot bonnet", I found this thread that talks about it: http://... ." Leaving out the preamble and just giving the link alone would make the response seem a bit cold.

gl

Hi! Lots of posts, since I was desperately addicted to NAM this summer while awaiting my new MINI! But a fairly new MINI owner nonetheless. Just some personal background. . .

1- as a teacher, I had LOTS of time this summer, and now have almost NONE to chat on NAM. Bummer!
2- I bought an R56, but that was after 6 years of craven longing, dreaming, stalking other Minis and MINIs! So I HOPE there isn't a huge schism among the owners, except for mods and mechanical issues.
3- The times I've posted either a question or comment, I've had helpful, humorour and kind replies. Also, the group my little car (to quote Buddy Hackett!) was with is a wonderful group of folks.

I don't know what NAM was like in the past, but as I've browsed posts, I've seen some that seem snipey and abrupt. I just bypass them, and thoroughly appreciate most of the other posts and threads. I guess I'm an OT poster most of the time, but I wouldn't hesitate to either ask for help on something and give help if I can! I definitely feel a nice sense of community here!

I think NAM is on par with most forums. Every forum that I have seen has its' share of people who seem to get their enjoyment from tweaking others. It is unfortunately human nature and easier to do in electronic form than in a face to face conversation. I don't think that it has gotten any worse recently - it was much more prevalent when the R56 was first introduced than it is now.

I enjoy reading NAM a couple of times a day and post when I feel I either have something semi-useful to add or when I see a post from someone who is introducing themself and their MINI.

+1 :nod:

I too believe that things have changed on NAM over the past few months...and yes, I miss the "good ole boys" and their insights into the issues presented. Just this past weekend when MINI owners from the Columbus and Cleveland areas met, this same subject came up in conversation. The general consensus was that the Club forums continue to be light hearted, friendly, and geared toward everyone's obsession with their MINI, while the other forums have become less desireable to be involved in. IMO it's because the Club Forums contain interaction between owners that will see each other in person and not just interact electronically.

I was reprimanded by someone a couple of days ago for making a humorous comment. The thread wasn't of a solemn nature, and the previous post was also humorous. I took that post one more step, in no way offensive, and was told not to "cut the thread off at the ankles" ...huh? As long as respect is maintained, why can't we crack a joke...we should all be friends, right?

that is true, our local forum is very tight, I have known them for close to 6 years now, but it is a car enthusiast site, we all started with VW/Audi, now we drive all types of vehicles, but focus on Euro. I also frequent another MINI site and find it very nice, great tone, etc...the members have set that tone, and the moderators don't have to "police". I don't see the members from that group at all, but it is nice to visit there, I feel like they know me, but here, I am just one of 40K plus or so.

You make a great point, and I totally agree with you!!!

See, that is a problem. The finger pointers jumping on you like that and not having fun. Things like that might keep me from posting in the future, or might cause another member to not post up a question, etc, out of fear of further harshness or disrespect.

We should all be alble to crack jokes, and have a little freedom, without blatant disrespect towards other members!!!:thumbsup:

I love this website, but I do think there are a couple of things I know I would like to see...

1.) A "Garage" or "Members Ride's" Section (Motoring Underground has one) this way people can find more information regarding a car they see somewhere else on the site, and people can constantly update/post pictures of their ongoing projects (like MsFitoy :grin: )

2.) A "Wheels" Gallery. Yes, I know of the "Show me your Wheels" thread, but over on Mini2, they have a gallery that shows all of the rims people have (it's alphabetized) and have multiple pictures showing what the rims look like on an S or non-S and different color combo's so people can get a better feel for what they would look like on their car. I watch the "Show me your Wheels" thread on a daily basis, but to try and find a wheel that I have seen months prior is like trying to find gold :lol: