For those planning to autocross-

What does everyone think about whether an MC would do better in H-stock or MCS in G-stock for the R56?

Now what if it's got to be an automatic transmission MC vs Auto MCS?

Naturally the best option is Manual MCS with LSD but that isn't so friendly as a family car for all drivers.

Pros and cons-
For the H-stock MC: good daily driver performance and economy (good mpg). Good manners and comfortable. Best PAX for autocross. choice of 15" or 16" rims and some good R compound tires are legal. Light total weight, sport button works, Sport suspension option available. Lower cost.

For the MCS: turbo power!, 16" or 17", tires better in 16", rims not as light, good PAX, still lighter weight than old R53, Sport suspension option. Good power for daily driving/spirited driving.

Right now I am leaning to an auto MC for H-stock and Sport suspension, 15" holeys with Hoosier A6 tires. But I could be persuaded to consider an auto MCS for G-stock with Sport suspension, 16" Rota Slipstreams and Hoosier A6 tires.

Anyone else gonna try the automatic transmission in the R56 for autocross????

 

The other downside to the MCS R56 is will it stay in G-stock or be moved to some other more competitive class like D-stock or worse?

D-stock includes:
Acura Integra Type R
BMW 330ci
Infinity G35 sedan
Lexus IS250/300/350
Mazdaspeed 3/6/Protege
Saturn Ion Redline
VW Golf R32

R56 MC will likely stay in H-stock.

 

Based on 2007 PAX
http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2007.html

Comparing what kind of times you'd have to run in various classes of autocross with a stock MINI vs modded MINIs.

Courses do vary-
Based on a course that runs 50 seconds for an MC in H-stock with PAX

H-stock 50.00 seconds x 0.789=39.45 (MC)
G-stock 49.13 seconds x 0.803=39.45
B-stock 47.64 seconds x 0.828=39.45
STS 49.0 seconds x 0.805=39.45 (MC)
STX 48.82 seconds x 0.808=39.45
STU 48.05 seconds x 0.821=39.45
FSP 47.93 seconds x 0.823=39.45 (MC)
DSP 47.19 seconds x 0.836=39.45
SM 46.09 seconds x 0.856=39.45 (MC)
EP 45.71 seconds x 0.863=39.45 (MC)
FP 45.45 seconds x 0.868=39.45

Based on a course that runs 35 seconds for an MC in H-stock with PAX
H-stock 35.00 seconds x 0.789=27.61 (MC)
G-stock 34.39 seconds x 0.803=39.45
B-stock 33.35 seconds x 0.828=39.45
STS 34.30 seconds x 0.805=39.45 (MC)
STX 34.18 seconds x 0.808=39.45
STU 33.63 seconds x 0.821=39.45
FSP 33.55 seconds x 0.823=39.45 (MC)
DSP 33.03 seconds x 0.836=39.45
SM 32.26 seconds x 0.856=39.45 (MC)
EP 32.0 seconds x 0.863=39.45 (MC)
FP 31.81 seconds x 0.868=39.45

My region has only short courses in a parking lot and one venue so 30 to 35 second runs covering 0.4 miles are all we have. I'd would be pressed to drive my SM class 2003 MCS about 1.5 to 2 seconds faster than the fastest G-stock MCS (LSD and SSR Comp with Hoosier A6 tires). I need about 2.2 seconds margin or greater to make up the PAX. I usually don't succeed.
Question is can I drive an H-stock MC within 2.7 seconds of my present car? Margins would be greater on a longer course.

 

I just checked some data I had for autocross in my region over the last year.

We can use the fast 2006 MCS with LSD and SSR comp with Hoosier A6 tires as the reference car.

It usually finished some 2 to 2.5 seconds faster than the only H-stock 2005 MC cabrio with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires on Holey rims. With better tires I think an MC Coupe could do much better.

Time gap for me when the G-stock MCS had older Kumho V710 tires was about 1.9 to 2.4 seconds on raw time and I was loosing on PAX by 0.77 to 0.23 seconds which is pretty close. As my tires Kumho V710 were getting older (1 year old) and he started running in new Hoosier A6 the difference shrunk in his favor about 0.5 to 1 second on raw times. The best I could do is loose on PAX by 0.8 seconds.

Could I drive better? Sure but so could he. I've added some wider 15x8 wheels and Hooiser A6 tires in wider 225/45-15 up from 205/45-15 on 15x7 rims so I hope that will help.

One interesting combo to consider would be-
R56 MC (sport suspension plus option) with camber adjusted front and rear (see grassrootsmotorsports site on finding adjustments possible for front camber)
Front camber -0.9 degrees rear camber about -0.9 degrees
Front toe to 1/16" out and rear toe to 1/16" in.
Holey rims with Hoosier A6 205.50-15 tires.
Manual or Auto transmission (take your pick). Might be a good combo and very low in price compared to other setups.

 

I think that choosing between an auto Cooper and an auto Cooper S for autocross is like choosing between a punch in the stomach or a kick in the groin

Seriously, if you have to have an auto, buy a VW R32 or Audi S3 Quattro with DSG. Toyota also made the MR2 Spyder for a couple years with a no-clutch-pedal manual gearbox.

But between those two cars, I would say to get the Cooper S (because the Cooper doesn't have any extra power to spare to the auto-box), but I don't think the Cooper S auto is available with an LSD... So I think both cars are sitting ducks in their stock classes if you want to run well on the index.

 

I wouldn't recommend an automatic for autocross.....sorry. But feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Buy the non-S automatic as the family car, take the $5000 difference in price and build a 1989 Civic Si for STS. You'll have a ball and have a competitive car, and an unabused MINI to drive on the street.

 

On the national level it might be difficult.

On the local or regional level I think it is possible for a good driver using the Auto transmission and good tires to be very competitive in either H-stock with an MC or G-stock with an MCS for the R56.

I think that the R56 in auto is a better autocrossing car than the R53. Question is which option MC vs MCS to choose given the PAX for H vs G stock and limits of tires for each with MC using either 15" or 16" while MCS uses 16" vs 17". From a budget standpoint the MC wins out which is nice and also from a daily driver standpoint the MC is very solid.

 

I think the key is whether it will hold the gear or not.

I've autocrossed a friends Corvette with the 4 speed automatic. The problem is when you have to shift from 1st to 2nd, sometimes it slides all the way to 3rd and you don't notice it until it's too late. If you just left it in 2nd, it would hesitate exiting a turn:

Enter turn in 2nd
About mid-corner start accellerating
Wait for transmission to shift from 2nd back to 1st (big delay)

But I haven't looked at the Mini automatic. Maybe you could explain it to us. Does it have a paddle shift or something? How many speeds?

 

I'm with Mitch:

If you can shift from first to second as quickly with the auto...

If it'll stay in second when it gets near redline or near bog...

If you have a second-gear-only course...

If the gearing is the same in the auto as the manual...

then there's no reason an auto can't do as well as a manual.

(Dang, that's a lot of if's )

 

Been on three courses this year, and have yet to change gears after shifting into 2nd at the beginning. Just hasn't been necessary.

 

Paddle shifters on the steering wheel one on each side for up and down shifts.

6 speed Aisin automatic transmission optional.

No more CVT on the new R56 MC or MCS.

I think it could work if you learned how to work the gears in automatic. I'd guess that most autocross courses could be driven well in 1st and 2nd gears only.

 

I think an R56 w/auto would be just fine in autoX, perhaps even better than a manual tranny on some courses. In a drag race the auto is faster than the manual, so you won't give up anything in that area. The paddle shift is reported to be good. I don't know if the auto will hold a gear at max revs. If it will, it could be a really good choice. It would be somewhat easier to drive unless you are really good with a manual. Strong downshifts, quick up shifts, and smooth gear changes. It all sounds a good combination.

For my part I don't like automatics, even good ones. I've always driven cars with three pedals and am good at down changes and can generally shift without upsetting the cars--not that I don't have other ways to do that! Also, if I had an auto my wife would want to drive the car, not something to be encouraged.

So, there are arguments for either option. Another option in some areas is the street tire class. Our region has a ST class, and I've won it a couple of times and hope to do so again. I will run a good street tire on light wheels and leave them on the car during the autox season. That way I can go to an event, empty out the car, set the tire pressures, add the numbers, and go. I really like not having to change wheels at events because I have a damaged back and can't manage the lifting, etc. Plus, there isn’t' a second set of wheels to drag to each event, often requiring a trailer. I have no National aspirations, so ST is just the ticket for me. I did STX for a year, but never really got going in that class. Being competitive in STX pretty much means having a Subaru or one of the other hot STX cars. Not only having it, but doing the needed mods to keep pace with the other folks who modify their cars. At one time I liked messing with cars as much as driving--almost. But age and the resulting wisdom that comes with it (sometimes) has reversed that. Now I like to drive, not mess with cars.

Joe Stephenson

 

I'm starting to think that you could get by with an automatic. I didn't know it was a 6-speed auto. That's pretty rare these days.

You'll still have some delay shifting between gears I'm thinking, and I would check that I would let you downshift to first for the tight turns (it may have some kind of safety feature) But unless you want to win Nationals (or a national event), the automatic will be okay.

Look at that! You changed my mind on this issue! (good job!)

 

One last thing....

Raising the rear tire pressure works great to balance the car in the turns, but it has a negative affect on straight line braking grip. A better way to cure the understeer is by tuning the chassis. (springs, sway bars, shocks, etc...) It won't take much, there are a bunch of options.

 

I have tried both, I had an '03 manual S, and now have an'05 automatic S, with the six speed Asin trans.

I find it easiest to put the trans in 2nd. From a stop it goes into first, so you take off in low gear, and your 1-2 shift is taken care of for you. The trans will downshift on its own under braking, so if you need to get into 1st, your down shift is done for you while you brake (assuming you are braking hard). If it doesn't go down to 1st, 2nd is no problem, it spools right up.

DSC off of course. You can rev it into the redline. I have only used the stock 17's runflats on web-spoke wheels. I think a better wheel tire combo would benefit topping out in 2nd, and getting into the rev limter. (suggestions appreciated) With the trans in manual, it doesn't shift up. Our courses rarely require going into 3rd, so better to just put it in 2nd for the run, it really isn't necessary to shift at all.

Car is completely stock, not even an air filter change. I usually don't even adjust air pressures. I figure the best improvement will be a change of wheels and tires. I have a set of 16 web spokes to devote to competiton, and haven't decided on tires.

So, how does it stack up against a manual? Not bad, I have been just a little slower than a manual S equipped with smaller wheels and better (non-runflat) tires.