I've been autocrossing for 3 years.

I've got a 2003 MCS in Street Mod class.
19% pulley, full suspension mods, Quaife diff
and 15x7 rims and Kumho V710 205/50-15 tires.

The last two autocross events I drove only in-
First Gear.

I finished 3rd fastest overall out of 97 and 4th fastest out of 110 for each event.

Yes, we had some relatively tight courses but the results look like I did what worked OK. I could shift to 2nd but then would have to slow down and perhaps even downshift again. Too much shifting adds possibility of errors.
Course length was short only about 30-37 seconds per run. First place was about 0.6 seconds ahead of me.

Before this I always used 2nd gear. Start off in first and get up to 6000 rpm then shift to 2nd and stay there for the rest of the course. We never go fast enough for 3rd gear.

I saw a video from another car and max speed was only about 40+ mph. I'll shift to 2nd about 45 mph.

Gearing on the newer MCS is shorter so no trouble there shifting to 2nd but I have a rather tall first gear.

Another aspect is first gear requires a bit of careful control to keep it for being jerky/stumbly. You'd have to be smooth staying in first, not usually a gear I drive around as fast as possible in for 30 seconds.

Anybody else with similar experience?

The other drivers mentioned that they were trying to work 1st and 2nd gears but didn't find a good place to shift on the course. Sounds like it was tough to make the gear selection work well for each car.

 

I've had similar experiences at some of our smaller sites when tighter courses are used in an attempt to lengthen the runs. A couple of courses have been run almost entirely in 1st gear, and one required 9 shifts per run.

Then we have other sites and designs where I'm in and out of 3rd gear a couple of times. One thing we do have around here is a variety of sites.

Scott
90SM

 

The only way you can really tell whether you should be shifting to second or not is with a data logger. Are you spending much time on the rev limiter? A data logger will show you when the car stops accellerating. You can try it both ways and if your speed increases or decreases in certain areas.

My gut says that you should be shifting to second, but you could be running on a pretty tight course.....something I haven't run on much.

 

Top speed in 1st at 7200rpm (from the GIAC) should be ~43.3mph when using short 23.1" 205/50-15 tires with the early transmission (speedometers tend to be more accurate at steady speeds). More than likely 1st will be quicker even if bouncing off the rev limiter a bit, provided you can be smooth enough with the throttle (though keep an eye on that belt).

This rpm limit should go away with the M62...

 

Yes, data logger would be best. When driving on a course under 30 seconds there just isn't enough time to glance at the speedo nor tach. I counted roughly 21 turns or more in 29 seconds.

Bouncing off the rev limiter- yes about twice but not for too long. I ran the course afterwards both in first only and in first/second with no downshifting and the times were identical. What was needed to drive one full second faster was to drive first gear only but smoother, quicker to get up to high rpm and work the rpms to not allow redline while working the course and hitting good lines and transitions. Next idea would be to keep all that AND upshift and downshift as needed to squeeze out the last bit of speed for a given part of the course.

I know it can be done but I lack the skill. At least it IS good to know that my MINI is NOT holding me back. Only my inexperience. When I watched the Honda S2000 that beat my time by 0.1 second he looked smooth, balanced, not noisy, and effortless as he glided through the course. He's one of our best drivers.

Oh well, there is much to learn. I'm only in my third season. One of our best drivers has been driving in my area since 1977 in the same car and he goes to nationals every year now. His daughter who drives the same car is two time national champion.

 

I'd ask Curtis what his feelings are, since he knows your courses... and say "HI" to the Lees for me when you see them... In addition to being prety good friends with their Nationals car owner, I've run into them more than once in Kansas City airport as we were all flying home from the Nationals.

Charlie Davis
STS #13 SF Region

 

We had our first meet of the year last Sunday. A MINI took first in H stock at 37.1 sec. A new beetle ( which is an automatic) finished 2nd and 3rd off only .02 and.03. I was 2+ seconds off. I ask the first place driver how he did that and it turned out that his best time was the run done by staying in first gear for practically the whole course. It was a pretty tight course with one straight of about 200 ft. I don't know how the Beetle handled the shifting but it is very possible that they ran in first also for most of the course. I and most of the other drivers (ten car field) shifted to first rather quickly and ran the rest of the course in second. It appears to be a tactic worth investigating.
Ben

 

When driving in first gear only- maximize your torque and HP using the usable portion of your power curve. If you are redlining too much you might as well shift to 2nd either as early as possible or late on the course.
If you shift earlier and you have more tight spots then you might have to downshift to 1st but if you are not smooth you can loose time.

Run the course in first only or first and second and see how your times vary. If there is a clear winner then for your skill level that event one approach may be better but it will vary with your gearing and your abilities.

What works for one driver doesn't work for another.

Staying in first really limits your speed so the moment you loose speed you really have to get right back on the throttle and work first gear up to higher rpms but not redline. Perhaps 4000 to 6000 rpm as much as is possible. Stay off the brake and use less throttle to slow a little, the engine will provide some braking as rpms drop.

A Cooper really ought to be far ahead of a beetle with an equal driver unless both are automatic or the beetle has R compound tires.

Keep practicing and really attack the course. Look for the longer straights and maximize speed coming into those parts of the course. You might have to set up slow before the turn before the straight then power out of the turn and keep power on through the straight. Every course is different.

As your skill improves you will have more options for gearing. The taller your gears the fewer you'll need to use, the shorter your gearing the more usable 2nd gear will be and maybe you can hit 3rd. I never use 3rd in autocross, I'd be going 65 mph. I did that only once at the finish on a test and tune day.

 

Thanks for to suggestions Minihune! I'm a slow learner and can use all the help I can get. I'm not a natural at this but I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Can't wait to get out there tomorrow and try it again. Gonna try to get an experienced driver to ride with me on one run and critique my performance. I did some experimenting today and found that I am into the rev limiter at 35 mph. (2005 MC) At least that is what it felt like to me. Last I checked I was the only MINI registered in H stock along with the Beetle with two drivers, an Acura RSX and a Mazda3. I don't know how experienced the Mazda3 driver is but I've read that the 3's are doing very well. Should be a fun day. It's a little past midnight here. I better get these old bones in the sack. Have to uphold the reputation of Team Justacooper

 

I think Minihune nailed it (post #9). The "key" to autocrossing is maximizing the friction circle, which means you have to be real smooth, but still fast at the same time. This is tough to do in 1st gear, even on a tight track.

Your experience reminds me of my first experiences with autocross. We had a small site (tight courses) and none of us were very experienced. I'd watch what the faster guys were doing and tried to emulate it. After doing that for about 5 years, I started traveling to larger events where I'd usually finish last. Problem was, I could never figure out what I we doing wrong. Was the fast way, driving with the tail hanging out? Driving deep into the corners and jamming on the brakes and being really aggressive with the car? That's the type of techiques my local competitiors were using against me....and they were normally beating me!

The "eye opener" was when I attended an Evolution Performance Driving school (autocross school). When I was finished with the school, I finally understood the "right way" to drive the course. Since then, after my first run and I know what I did right and what I did wrong.

I remember that they specifically teach you about running the course in 1st/2nd verses 2nd the whole time. And the Phase 1 course is pretty tight.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share what my experience has been. (don't know if it really helps)

 

Any food for thought is appreciated Mitchman. The course we ran today was very open; the complete opposite of last Sunday's course. I fooled around with using first gear some on the first run and messed it up pretty good. After that I shifted to 2nd as soon as I hit about 6k and ran the rest of the way in 2nd. Finished 5th out of 8. Had the time to get 3rd place on my last run but clipped a cone right at the finish. Was only 1 sec out of first; all in all a good day for me. I am definitely going to the Evolution school that they have scheduled in April at Ft. Pierce, FL. It is listed as 'Teen driving School and Phase One' so I have some questions about it but they don't list a contact yet. It can't happen soon enuf to suit me.
Ben

 

OK, while I am still getting good results staying in first I really don't want that to continue.

So stay in first and drive it high rev the whole time, never let the rpms drop, stay off the brake and just let the revs fall a bit to slow a little then stomp on the throttle as much as possible.

Or shift to 2nd the first time when I get to about 5500 rpms then keep the speeds up as much as possible and try not to bog down in a low rpm in the tight sections. Make the most out of the straights using second, accelerate early and hold it till late.

I know that all of the courses I drove in first only could have been driven in both first and second. Downshifting on a course that lasts 30 seconds is risky for me. More potential errors and not enough benefit but I could try it on a fun run. I did try second a few times and did not see any benefit on time so that clearly is not the best strategy given my current skill level.

Next month I'll have the Championship Run Off then a half day of fun runs so it will be a good time to try out new methods and get some downshifting practice in. Maybe I'll try some left foot braking.