This is probably not a good time to post and expect replies with so many attending MOTD but bad timing is the story of my life so...I have some questions concerning suspension mods about which I know very little. I autocross in H stock and prefer to stay in that class. I have a 2005 MC and was wondering whether the stock lower control arms and rear springs from a '05 or '06 MCS would be compatible with my MC. I have the larger rear swaybar out of an MCS. The 2005 and up models are supposed to have an eccentric bolt on the lower control arm which allows some camber adjustment. My car doesn't have it. Apparently early 2005 production used up the left over 2004 parts. I would be interested in acquiring said used MCS parts from someone who has upgraded if they would be compatible.
Ben

 

If you wish to stay in HS, then you're not allowed to change the MC springs, rear bar, or control arms with those from an MCS. If you're looking to be competitive, get some Koni shocks, r-comp tires, and take off/disconnect the front bar.

 

Switching to those arms is not allowed under the SCCA Solo 2 Stock Class rulebook. Sorry. Maybe you're thinking of the update/backdate rule in the Street Prepared classes?

Under stock class rules, you're limited to "wear items"

Muffler
Tires
Brake pads
Shocks

The only thing that is allowed to be replaced that's not a wear item is the front sway bar. You can swap it out (or remove it) for any other size front bar.

So with all this in mind, what you end up with for modifications is:

Tires (makes the biggest difference)
Shocks
Alignment
Wheels (substitute light weight wheels of the same size/offset)
Muffler (subsititute a light weight version)
Brake pads (anything goes)
Front sway bar (some go with the smaller front bar, but most use the one in your car now)
Spark Plug Wires
Coil Pack
Air Filter element

 

Thanks for your responses L8Apex and mitchman... I'm not that versed on the rules but according to FWD-MX5 in the "Stock Class FAQ" sticky at the top of this thread an MC can be upgraded to the SS+ suspension and stay in Stock Class. That is basically replacing the rear springs and swaybar with MCS components. The control arms, I would think would fall in the category of OEM stock parts which can be utilised whether originally installed or not. Just like replacing the SS suspension with the SS+ suspension. As far as the control arms go, my car touted as a 2005 model does not have the adjusting bolts as I said in my original post. The control arms with the adjusting bolts are OEM stock parts. Maybe I have an issue with MINIUSA? All this brings another question to mind. Starting in January of 2005 LSD was available as an option. Could a 2005 model that didn't originally order it have it installed and stay in HS . Expensive but doable.
Ben

 

You cannot simply swap random MCS springs into your car, you must use the correct spring part number for your car, there are three or four differents springs based upon options, and you have to use the correct ones.

The LSD was/is not available in the MC.

Swapping in the adjustable control arms, seems pretty straight forward, but I would make sure your car is actually an 05 and not a late 04. There is precedence for mid year option changes being able to be retrofitted on earlier same year cars.

 

If you're going to upgrade to what was an avaliable option for your car, you must change ALL the components that were in said option.

So, you CAN replace the stock springs, bars, and shocks with the SS+ parts...however, they must be the same part numbers for your year and must be for the MC not MCS (they may be the same parts, so thats fine).

Your control arm situation seems a bit odd to me, but I dont know all that much about the arms.

And yea, no LSD for the MC.

If you're still going to want to go threw with all that, you can actually get away with changing the springs and rear bar to the SS+, keep the same front bar, and use Koni shocks. That way, you've upgraded the neccessary parts to comply to the "upgrade-to-options" rule while also upgrading to better shocks allowed by the rules. The only catch is that all that has to be present at the same time.

 

Thanks for all the input. I have not responded because I was out of town for a few days getting my son married off. From what MOTORING posted, I need to find out what SS+ springs and rear swaybar are the proper ones for my MINI. If there are MCS components that are identical that I could find used (read cheaper), I wouldn't consider that cheating. It's likely that the part #'s for identical components would be the same whether for an MC or an MCS. I need to find someone knowledgeable in that arena.
The question whether my MC is an '04 or an '05 is troubling. The paperwork indicates it is an '05. But the disparity with the control arms got me thinking.... how do I know that I have the GETRAG transmission that was first used on the '05s? Wish I knew how to check that.
Ben

 

Contact Charlie Davis "minipartsguy" cdavis at bmwsf dot com
give him your vin# and he can help you with everything you need. He is a long time autoxer and very helpful

 

This is a good suggestion.

For stock class autocross in SCCA you need to be sure that your changing of parts is within the rules. If challenged you will need to prove that the parts you installed are the correct parts that would have come with an MC with SS+ suspension from the factory.

The part numbers for SS+ from MINI are known but may vary from one model year to another. You cannot install leftover used parts from an MCS and remain legal. Lower control arms from MC vs MCS are the same except for the model year that got the adjustable part. If you MC was in that exact model year or later then you can change the part but if your MC is older then you can't change it.

As far as fitment goes, the various suspension parts from the MCS will fit the MC and will work.

It's the legality of the changes for autocrossing that needs to be considered.

 

Thanks MOTORING and minihuhe for your advice. This has gotten a lot more complicated than I expected. My original brainstorm was ..Hey!..a lot of MCS owners upgrade suspensions by going to aftermarket parts so there must be a bunch of used factory parts laying around that could be picked up cheaply. That was before I knew that the SS+ parts had to be compatible with my original option package. Wish I knew more about this. I definitly want to stay legal. I would not be worried about being challenged anyhow since I would have to be winning to trigger that and I'm a long way from that . It still seems like there should be MCS parts that would have the same part numbers as the proper MC SS+ parts. Fiscal reality says that there are a limited inventory of different parts and there must be some interchangeability between the MC and the MCS. I just don't have the access to the relevant information to answer that question.
Thanks again.
Ben

 

I agree with Keith. Call Charlie, give him your VIN# and he'll sell you the correct upgrade parts for your car.

What is left that you need answered?

 

Yes, you have a clearer picture now of the parts you need to make the suspension upgrade legally. Although it is a hassle, the rules are there to ensure that all competitors are staying within the limits of what could be ordered from the factory- hence it's stock.

If you can get the right part numbers that would be best. If you can just get a complete set of parts from another MC owner that has the same options (sunroof, xenon lights, HK audio, etc) as you have that would be easiest.

Problem is that MINI has many many part numbers for all the different MCS or MC configurations. It's not easy to cross reference the right parts and I don't even know how you can tell the true specs of one part number from another unless they are marked with more than one part number or color code.

Giving Charlie a call with the VIN#- definitely a great place to start.

OK- now how much difference will the SS+ upgrade be for you?
Not that much but it does help. What is easier and next best?
See post #3 and consider some shocks.
New air filter element for autocross days- just pop out the old and drop in the new one only for autocross.
Better tires- always in peak condition not over worn (which tires and rims are you using now?)
Light cat back exhaust- Miltek or Helix for MC
(You can budget for some of these for the future but they are legal and solid mods)

For the MC wheels and tires-
Wheels- best and lightest would be stock 15x5.5 Holeys with Kumho V710 205/50-15 tires (I know the tires cost $ but at least the rims can be gotten cheap)
If you have stock 16" rims they will be about 5+ pounds heavier each and then you'd need to use either street tires (wears better but not as fast) like Hankook Rs 212 or Falken Azenis RT615 or use R compounds- Hoosier A6 (expensive) or Kumho V710. Personally I think having better rims and tires would be better and easier than trying to upgrade to SS+.

 

The springs are your only issue. Charlie can run your Vin and tell you which springs you need, they are marked with different color paint dots. When you get that info, you can start shopping for used springs.

The SS+ struts and rear sway bar are the same as the MCS parts.

 

I have an 05' MC with a build date of 11/04' and when I went in to get a baseline stock alignment there was no tollerance slop or adjustment found (front or rear). Started reading this thread and thought to myself I need to mention this to Charlie as he already has my SS+ suspension springs and RSB quoted. I will send him an email in the morning and see how much more it will cost me for the adjustable bolts. I will be installing the Koni Yellow's as well when I do the Spring swap. BTW I have every intention of shaking things up a bit in San Diego in 09'.

 

Front is adjustable for toe and there is some play to get additional camber by loosing nuts and letting things slide. I got 0.3 degrees, others have gotten slightly more or less.

Rear is adjustable for toe as well. You can use this adjustment to change the handling characteristics of your car. Add more toe-in = more traction in the rear. Reduce toe-in = less traction in the rear. If you end up with zero rear toe and the car still understeers, try a smaller front sway bar (from a standard Cooper) and/or you can try some toe-out in the rear. But don't go with more than 1/8" toe-out as it makes the car hard to drive. (this is a very simplified explanation)

Koni shocks will probably make a HUGE difference. Good choice. I assume you're going with Koni yellows.

 

Yellows are the ones. My current settings (STS) is -2.0 deg, 1/16" toe out front and -1.5 deg 1/16" toe in for the rear. When I go to stock it will change to however much I can get in the front with 1/16" toe out in front and 0 cmaber and toe for the rear (I like to be able to rotate the rear if I want) with base line tire pressures at 41 front 37 rear on rt615's.

 

Personally I think having better rims and tires would be better and easier than trying to upgrade to SS+.[/quote]

I agree!! A guy at nationals last year trophied on stock shocks and a set of Kumhos on rota slipstreams. I have thought of doing the conversion myself, but it seemed like to much trouble to try to track down the correct springs and rear bar. Buying the parts through MINI is just too expensive for my budget now. I think unless you're a top level driver, I don't know if you would benefit from the time and trouble of the conversion to ss+.

All I have done to my car is:
215/40/16 Kumho v710 on rota slipstreams
Magnaflow exhaust
k&n filter
koni yellow w/ stock (non ss springs)

the car is very compitive locally and pretty close to being a nationally competitive car.
Hoping for a trophy at nationals this year

 

Wes,

Charlie sells the parts at wholesale. maybe not as cheap as ebay, but you know you get exactly the right parts.

But I agree, tires and driver make much more difference than slightly stiffer springs. but when the difference between first and second is small, the springs could be enough to put you over the top.

How did you get hooked up with Des?

 

Keith,

Thats good to know. Unfortunately my budget this year is just for tires. I might upgrade the springs next year. You're right, when you see how close the competition is near the top those springs could make all the difference.

I've done 4 tours and a pro this year Dixie, Atlanta Tour and Doublecross, Peru and Milwaukee and Des has been at every one, but Peru. I met Des at nationals last year and he's a pretty cool guy. Also, at nationals last year it seemed all the drivers who had co-drivers did pretty well. Jack Burns was the only exception. So, when he emailed my through sccaforums.com and asked if I was looking for a co-driver I said sure!!!

 

Des used to race locally with us (still does sort of) he splits time between Atlanta and Seattle. Great guy, super helpful.

Good luck in Topeka. Stop by and say Hi. Des will know where to find me.

 

Do they have a street tire class at nationals for HS?

 

No, and no plans in the near future to have one.

 

I found out that I already have the SS+ suspension (according to Charlie and my VIN#) so now I'm looking for the standard front sway bar for the MC since the SS+ uses the same front sway as the sport pakage does which I believe is the 17mm. Anyone out there happen to have one of those lying around the garage in some corner?