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I originally joined another mini forum (it was the first one I found) but have not received much in the way of feedback, so I figured I would start over with this forum. Thus, I apologize if any of you have read this post on that other forum. Anyways, let's get everyone caught up on my 'fun'...
Ok, so my vehicle… 2010 R57 Mini Cooper S Convertible in Horizon Blue Metallic. 6-speed Manual transmission. Options include Harman Kardon sound, heated seats, navigation.
Issue: Convertible top does not work.
Facts: 1. (Using Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner) When the convertible top is fully closed the sensors are reading:
Sensor / Result
Sunroof 70% / No
Sunroof 100% / No
Main Pillar Positioned / Yes
Main Pillar Stowed / No
Microswitch (rear shelf) / Closed
2. If rear shelf is moved the microswitch reads as “Not Closed”. 3. Pressing the overhead ‘Top Switch’ opens the sunroof. The sensors then read:
Sensor / Result
Sunroof 70% / Yes
Sunroof 100% / No
Main Pillar Positioned / Yes
Main Pillar Stowed / No
Microswitch (rear shelf) / Closed
4. Pressing the overhead ‘Top Switch’ again yields the following observations:
A small led under the switch flashes green.
The dash shows a picture of the car with an explanation point above the rear end and the radio gives a similar statement.
Is this just warning me the top is in motion? Or is this telling me there is an error?
The windows to NOT go down.
The sunroof does NOT move back to the 100% open position.
The top latches do NOT unlatch.
And as you can guess, the top does NOT try to physically open.
5. This happens regardless of window position at start. All windows up. Front windows down/Back windows up. Front up/back down. All down.
Based on all of the reading I’ve done on this and other forums, the sensors are far-and-away the most common issue. However, based on my scanner, they seem to be operating just fine. So where do I go from here? Should I replace the two purple relays? Replace the Convertible Top Control Module? Replace both items? I don’t mind throwing money at it, as long as I’m headed in the right path. Once I saw the sensors were working correctly, I thought it must be the top motor is not working… but in the middle of the night it occurred to me that I should see other things move before that motor is engaged... and they do not budge.
Any help is appreciated. I’m an Engineer and restore motorcycles in my spare time for fun, so don’t be afraid to throw somewhat complex diagnostic procedures my way. 😊
Well, I'm digging into the trunk of the car. I found step-by-step directions on how to take access the pump, motor, relays, and control module here: mods4cars product manual Hopefully I'm allowed to post links. If not, I'm sure this post will be deleted.
I went ahead and bought another module off of ebay that 'claimed' to have been tested. Hopefully I see some difference. I also ordered two brand new relays... but now that I see them and the circuit they are hooked up to, I don't think they have anything to do with the sunroof moving to the "100% open" position or the windows going down... which are the next steps in the opening process, but maybe they do. I'm banking on the control module at this point. I wish there was a way to diagnose the current module. [img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
I thought I would give a little more background on the scanner and sensors. I found this video on youtube which identifies the correct sensor readout for the convertible top on an R57 at the different stages of openning. In the case the video link does not work, just search on youtube for, "How To Test MINI Cooper R57 Convertible Top Roof Switches"
I bought the scanner knowing it would help me diagnose the check engine light and hoping it would provide a readout of the sensors... and it does! I just bought the Foxwell NT510 elite for BMW/Mini/Bentley off of Amazon as their return policy makes life easy. It was $160. Now that I see what this thing is capable of, I won't be returning it. [img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
In case anyone is wondering, I have to replace the MAF sensor. I already ordered one directly from Bosch to ensure it isn't one of the $50 knock-offs that seem to be hit-or-miss.
Anyways, back to the scanner... I was also worried because I only have a Mac at home and all the reviews imply you need to get the foxwell software on your computer and update the firmware before anything else... Not true! Is there an update that might give a bit more info? Yeah, possibly. But It really is plug-and-play! I took it out of the box, spent about 15 minutes reading the direction (which includes the statement that it's fully loaded but there may be an update so it's suggested you update before using) and headed out to the car. It took another five minutes till I found the roof sensors (half of which was just waiting for data uploads from the car) and viola! I quickly had the info I posted in the first post.
I have a couple of parts being delivered today, so I should know a bit more about my top troubles this evening. In the meantime, it would be a HUGE help if someone could respond on the following for an R57... If the sunroof is open, and I press the convertible top switch a second time to open the entire roof, I get an Icon right above my steering wheel showing my car with the top down and an exclamation point above it. Does this icon appear when the top is in motion (meaning it my car thinks the top is opening) or does this icon tell me there is an error? My scanner is not showing any errors.
If the car thinks the top is going through the phases of opening the roof, but it is not moving, then I think I'm right that the convertible top module (computer) is scrambled. But if the icon is telling me there is an error, then the computer must be getting a fault from somewhere and it is NOT trying to open the sunroof to the 100% open position.
----- Ok, this catches everyone up on my fun. Hopefully the parts that arrived today (overhead switch assembly and Convertible Top Control Module) somehow fixes it. After that I'll await the new relays I ordered from ECS. ---------
Hello, I cannot help you on the scanner part as we don't support the one off eBay/amazon. We support the one we sell (foxwell/schwaben version) as i use that one personally. Their are a couple things that are different between the two from what i know, but since i have not used that other one, i dont know exactly the difference in each module function.
Here is the top function video and another simple tool version. :
I would try the relays, the hall sensors tell you points and how close you are to the points in contact. Its been a while since i drove an R57 and i dont remember if that was a light just to tell if its in motion or a problem.
Thanks, Mike!
The scanner is an authentic Foxwell unit, but I understand that there are differences beyond the color.
I'll let you know when I get the relays - I ordered those and a chrome grill piece from ECS.
In the mean time, if a current R57 owner could respond here, it would be a huge help. I just need a couple of simple observations from a WORKING roof.
1. When you are opening the top, does a green LED flash by the overhead switch? Does an icon on your dash show the car, with the top down, and an exclamation point above it?
2. I need to know the progression of operations to understand the fail point. When you open the top, does the sequence go:
a) LATCHES UNLATCH > WINDOWS GO DOWN 30% > SUNROOF MOVES FROM 70% TO 100% OPEN POSITION > ENTIRE ROOF BEGINS TO MOVE
b) WINDOWS GO DOWN 30% > LATCHES UNLATCH > SUNROOF MOVES FROM 70% TO 100% OPEN POSITION > ENTIRE ROOF BEGINS TO MOVE
c) WINDOWS GO DOWN 30% > SUNROOF MOVES FROM 70% TO 100% OPEN POSITION > LATCHES UNLATCH > ENTIRE ROOF BEGINS TO MOVE
Today's update:
I replaced the Convertible Top Module... no change.
I then realized (again, in the middle of the night) that the latches that lock the roof onto the windshield are probably NOT operated by a separate motor; that it's probably a mechanical system that the sunroof, moving back to 100% open position, probably unlatches. So I removed the sunroof motor and pushed the sunroof to the 100% open position (verified the hall sensor saw it as such with my scanner) and the latches unhooked. This tells me that it isn't an issue with cables/latch mechanism. I then pushed the roof up and back a wee bit (about an inch). I tried to use the switch to open the roof and it alarmed out. But the good news is that I could use the switch to close the roof... the roof motor and hydraulics work!!! I did it again, but this time reinstalled the sunroof motor when the roof was open an inch. The switch refused to open the roof, but it closed without issue, including the sunroof.
All of this leads me to believe that there is still some sensor, somewhere, that is not giving the necessary response to allow the sunroof opening process to begin. I've started making a list of all the different sensors and conditions, and then I'll add what module I can find the info in the scanner. See below. If anyone knows of another sensor or condition necessary for the top to open, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! Thank You!
Sensor -- Necessary Response to begin Opening Process
70% Hall Sensor -- Yes
100% Hall Sensor -- No
Pillar Positioned Sensor -- Yes
Pillar Stowed Sensor -- No
Luggage Microswitch -- Closed
Roof Latch (Driver Side) -- Locked
Roof Latch (Passenger Side) -- Locked
Outside Temperature -- >10F
Vehicle Speed -- <20mph
Window Position (FD) -- Down
Window Position (FP) -- Down
Window Position (RD) -- Down
Window Position (RP) -- Down
Trunk -- Closed
I don't have a Schwaben or foxwell, nor will I open my top as it's raining, but:
blinking and icons is a sign for an error. When working, nothing blinks or throws icons.
I had to go through every module and option in the scanner, but I found the issue! For some reason the sensor that tells the computers that the trunk (boot) lid is open or closed is under the Burglar Alarm System. That boot lid sensor was always telling the system that the boot lid was open. The sensor is physically part of the left (driver side in the USA) boot lid latch assembly. There are three wires that go to that sensor. I could see the circuit in the sensor was showing connectivity between two of the wires. I placed a jumper between the two outside wires and could see on the scanner that the boot lid would switch from 'open' to 'closed'... so I made the jumper permanent. I'll replace the latch assembly later on down the line, but not really the highest priority for me at this point.
I can't adequately express the satisfaction I felt seeing that roof move for the first time. [img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img][img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img][img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
After putting most of the interior back together I spent a good 2 hours giving the interior a much needed detailing. I'm awaiting a couple of plastic rivets and clips before putting the last few pieces back in. With how much she rattles, I want to make sure EVERY retainer is back in.
Up next: Fix the stereo. I'll start another thread for that one. [img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]
Have you gotten a quote on the latch assembly to replace it? Can you share the part number? I’m having the exact same issue. I don’t know if I’m savvy enough to jump the wires and fool the system to tell it the trunk is closed. I’m also getting warnings as I’m driving saying the boot is open when it’s not. So my roof not opening is definitely that faulty latch.
I have top issues as well. I've read some many posts and forums, but haven't seen the issue you had before in another post. I can't see the pictures you posted of the boot lid latch assembly you were talking about. Any chance you could share them again?
Its sets on the left hand side in the trim. When those two arms are closed in the trunk and the trunk fabric cover is in the lower position, the feet of the one handle makes contact with the switch. It protects the trunk the top not destroying itself.
