I am getting conflicting information on what is wrong with my car from the dealership and from a local independent repair shop. I would love to get the community's feedback about this madness.

Ten months ago, my '08 MCS, Max, went in for service at the dealership and the timing chain was replaced.

Six months ago, Max went to the dealership for an oil change and it was the worst experience. I swore off the dealership after this. At the time, I told the dealership that my yellow check engine light had been coming on intermittently. I was told not to worry about it because it was intermittent, they never saw it on when it was being worked on, and it would cost me a certain amount to plug it in and diagnose. Of course, as soon as I got in my car to leave the dealership, the check engine light came back on.

So I called the indie shop. How much does it cost to plug it in and look at the codes? Nothing! They plug it in and tell me I've got 150+ faults for the air mass sensor. I keep driving around with my check engine light on for awhile... until....

Last week Max would not start. Max got towed to the indie shop. The indie shop opens him up and checks the faults and tells me... the timing chain is off. The camshafts are on, but the crankshaft is off one tooth. They advise me to take it back to the dealership because it will be under warranty. So Max gets back on a tow truck and goes to the dealership. Shout out to AAA for towing Max twice (they don't normally do that)! At least AAA is awesome.

So Max is now at the dealership and they are telling me it's NOT the timing chain. The dealership says the timing for the intake and exhaust cam is off. They say total repair cost for the camshaft problem and air mass sensor would be around $2200.

The indie shop is telling me 100% this problem is because of the timing chain and they think the dealership is trying to get out of the warranty work.

Any thoughts on this one? My inclination is to tow it back to the indie shop and be done with the dealership forever.

 

The dealer is giving you the classic "it's out of factory warranty so let's screw the guy" treatment. Can you contact a different dealer, maybe Seattle, and see what they say? I don't know how to do this but maybe consider contacting Mini USA and lodge a complaint. I agree this doesn't pass the smell test. BTW that looks a lot like my former Mini MCS.

 

I agree with TheBigNewt, contact Mini USA for sure. Did you show the Indie shop's diagnosis to the dealer service manager?

 

I read the report from the indie shop to the SA at the dealership and read the report from the dealership to the repair guy at the indie shop.

Haven't talked to MINI USA yet. I decided that's my dear husband's job because his wheel is much squeakier than mine. And he wants to go over every single piece of paperwork from the mass quantities of repairs that the dealership has done over the years before he makes the call.

I'll keep you up-to-date

BTW- TheBigNewt- Max is in a beautiful sparkling silver/black color way. I have always liked that sparkling silver color, and the name.

 

They're both telling you the same thing. The timing chain drives the camshafts. If the mark on the crankshaft lines up, but the marks on the cams don't, it's the same thing as the marks on the camshafts lining up and the crankshaft being off. What difference does it make? Whomever replaced the timing chain for you screwed it up. Period.

Yes, the dealership screwed up, but couldn't you tell the difference when you drove the car? You should've noticed the problem immediately (and reported it back to the dealer). Hopefully, Mini will take care of you, but poor workmanship by the dealer is not something Mini will pay for. The dealer will have to eat it. Stand by for a battle.

 

It's been years since my car has driven well. I never detected anything abnormal beyond the usual problems, such as sluggish acceleration followed by a poof of black smoke and sudden power, rough idling. I know those could be caused by timing chain issues, but it has been normal for years.

 

Obvious who the dealer is, what indie shop are you going to?

 

I'm Morris08's DH. Just spent an hour on the phone with MINIUSA. Basically, got no where. I learned that there is no open campaign on this car for anything to do with the timing chain. MINIUSA will also stand behind the dealer's assessment of the problem. The only recourse - have the car towed 130 or so miles up to Tacoma to have the dealership there look at the car. If we take it to the indy shop (Dynasport, btw) and it turns out to be a problem with the timing chain or the way the dealer installed the timing chain 7,500 miles ago, we have no recourse and MINI won't cover anything.

So basically the dealer is free to squeeze us into a catch-22. Regardless of what or how the problem occurred, they can say whatever they want, charge whatever they want. If we take it elsewhere and it turns out it was because of bad work they did previously, then we still end up paying. So, do I pay $2,200 to have the dealership work on the car - the same dealership that on three occasions, has sent us home after fixing the car, only to have the engine light come on within miles. Or do I pay $1,100 to have a respected, well rated indy work on the car? Choice is pretty simple.

One thing to note, if you mention small claims court while on the phone with MINI, they get quite excited. They almost ended the call on me until I confirmed I was not currently considering legal action against them.

 

Could you explain that to the resolution expert at MINIUSA? I'm not enough of a mechanic (ok, not one at all) to explain why the dealership is dodging this problem. Since "timing chain" does not equal "intake and exhaust cam", the problems are different and MINIUSA stands behind the dealer's statement. What else can I do? I'm not towing the car to Tacoma to have someone else look at it.

 

Save small claims for after, don't even bother threatening with it. Just do it to recover money if need be. For $1000-$2000 a dealership has to send someone to defend and it might cost them more than what they would have to pay you.

I've used Dynasport in the past and they did great work until they didn't. Nobody is 100% great, I left with a bad feeling. I now use a truly indep guy when it is work he can do. If it requires computer-fu with Mini I'm out of luck with him. I'd go check with another local mini service company before towing to Tacoma.

 

Joe is trying to say that the timing (which is the rotational relationship between 3 things that all spin: the crank and the 2 cam shafts) was set by the dealer when they replaced your chain. They are all held in sync by gear teeth and normally don't just jump off by one tooth. This image shows what it all looks like:

http://www.promini.com/images/techni...it-diagram.jpg

The two cam shaft sprockets are at the top, the crank sprocket is at the bottom. The chain joins all 3 in a fixed relationship. Unless someone else worked on this part of the car the dealer very likely screwed it up and should fix it for free. The only other way for this to have happened is if the chain developed enough slack to jump off one of the sprockets (which in your case would have to be the crank sprocket) temporarily to allow the one tooth misalignment. The tensioner is supposed to keep the chain tight enough to prevent this. This is the only plausible argument the dealer could make but it seems very unlikely.

Maybe you can get your Indie guy to explain it to the MINI rep.

 

Thanks for the reply and picture - it was helpful.

The dealership says it's not a warranty issue because the new timing chain's deflection value is within threshold (measured at 67mm). The fact that the timing is off is not a warranty issue and indicative of a new and different problem. $1,600 for that repair plus almost $700 to replace the air mass sensor. Um, no. It's being towed back to the indie right now.

At the end of the day, we just don't feel like the dealership knows what they're doing. They've sent us home three times in the past with the car, only to have the engine light come back on within a few (<25) miles. The last time it happened was just after an oil change. They wanted to charge us some ridiculous fee to plug the car into the computer, even though it had just left the dealership. I really can't imagine ever going back to them after all the problems we've had. And not just this visit either. There's a long history, much of it ending in frustration. I just hope people realize when they deal with this dealership, plan on bringing the car in twice to have a problem fixed about 30% of the time and their 2-year warranty is not as good as it may appear on the surface.

 

That dealer seems like a pretty bad one, you can't always trust dealers because they want to nickel-and-dime you to death. Do Mini dealers service guys get paid via commission?