It looks like if you want to order a MINI you are going to need to order a 2009. The configurator has DTC there, but only as an option, later. I *was* happy just ordering the DSC, LSD and sport suspension. I can get DTC if I want to wait till sometime in December.

Is it worth the wait? I know that'll depend on what I have planned, but what are everyones thoughts?

I think I'm probably OK without it......but am more than willing to listen to those more in the know than me.

 

I'm in the same situation - I have a Clubman on order for September delivery. I'm ordering LSD, so I have to wonder if LSD without DTC is better or worse. I'm also wondering if they will eliminate LSD and just offer DTC and EDLC....I'm going to call my MA, but he probably won't know as much as I do.....

 

Yeah, i talked to mine today, about a few varied things. On one of them he said "and if you hear anything about it let me know".

We are such an educated public these days.

 

but that's just me.

Matt

 

First, the online confuglator doesn't exactly match the dealer's ordering system. In the past, there have been things the dealer could order that weren't available online. Having them check on it would be worthwhile. Theirs may have it available for orders earlier than the configulator.

As for it worthiness, I'm still a little unsure about the differences between ASC and DTC. It has been said here that ASC simply cuts engine output if there is wheel slippage, which is a pretty horrible way to deal with only one wheel slipping.

I thought ASC applied the brake to a wheel that was spinning which would cause the differential transfer power to the other wheel. Engine power would only be cut if both started spinning. I've been informed that I'm wrong, and only DTC does that.

If that is the case, I'd be very tempted to wait for DTC.

 

Robin I was in that same thread where people were saying you were incorrect. In that thread I pointed out there have been two different versions of ASC. ASC and ASC+T. ASC does not apply the brakes. ASC+T does! Then someone else said that BMW markets ASC differently from MINI and MINI only uses ASC. Well on the MINI.com international sites MINITechnical terms. ASC is not even defined. Only ASC+T. It also says that:

ASC+T ensures that optimum traction and directional stability are maintained. The prevention of wheelspin is achieved by engine torque reduction and/or brake application. To prevent one wheel spinning, brake application to that wheel is employed. To prevent both wheels spinning, engine torque is reduced.


ASC is ancient technology developed by BMW in the early 90s and phased by late 90s. It was improved to ASC+T which is still used today as a basic stability control. DSC is another improvement on top of ASC+T and is able control yaw to a certain degree.

DTC to me is more of a performance/fun addition. As it will allow more wheel slippage (according to BMW). Even MINIUSA.com site says this about DTC: "... helping out, for example, on snow-cover or sandy surfaces." the type of surfaces where you would want a bit of wheel spin to get going. Without DTC the DSC/ASC+T may just cut power (since most likely both wheel will be spining)

That's my 2 long cents about ASC+T, DSC and DTC.



To the OP, I have DSC, LSD and sport suspension and the car is perfectly fine/fun to drive as is

 

Not sure if this is true for the MINI DTS set up, but for you solo-clubtrack days-Michael Schumacher types, many of the systems of this type (goes by many names depending on car brand) have a 'on off' switch to "kill" the DCS but in fact only eliminate X% of the system override... for example the Audi system when switched off only reduces the level of system involvement (I think by about 75%) and if you are doing lets say SOLO (autoX) you do not want ANY system override... on my C6 the yaw (aka DTC) has this set up:
traction and stability control has a large menu of options starting with the normal "on" mode, which allows a bit of wheel slip, giving the Corvette a natural feel in hard acceleration. One push of the traction-control button puts that system to sleep while keeping full yaw control in operation, while a second push puts the car in the competition mode, which dials back the yaw control considerably and allows you to hang the car's tail out. By holding down the button for five seconds, all the systems can be switched off completely.

Point being before you order the DTC (is it not standard for 2009?) if you plan to solo/track etc might find out if 'OFF' switch really means off. DTC is a wonderful safety net for drivers who really do not understand car dynamics and for me the ASC+T (a MINI tech who supposedly knows these cars told me that is the system on the MINI) is really all that Ellen and I need (yes we do solo/club track etc and love a spirited drive on the S's) so DTS option was not even considered... just IMO as to what works for us
Michael

 

ASC applies brakes too. all minis come with TC. TC doesn't apply brakes. ASC and TC come on when accelerating.
DSC comes on when car spins.
DTS is just a new name for ASC+TC+DSC.

 

Do you mean DTC?

 

Curious, Will Mini discontinue the LSD after launching the DTC? That would seriously dampen my desires for a PW/PW mini. Crosses fingers in hopes that mini doesn't do it.

Then again i wonder if we can combine DTC and LSD. Something tells me Mini won't allow the two. Sort of like the JCW mini. You can't have both.

BlitZ

 

I don't see why you couldn't have both. LSD and ASC are currently available. DTC just seems to be a better implementation of ASC.

I suspect the reason the JCW doesn't have an LSD option is that it has a different transmission, and generates more power. So, it would probably need a different LSD. There may not be enough JCW volume anticipated to justify developing another LSD.

 

Maybe? Why do you ask?

 

I'm very curious about this as well.

At first I was confused, thinking that the Mini had ASC (that could brake an individual wheel and/or cut engine power when front wheels spin) and that you could add DSC (helps keep the car pointed where you want it to go...more of a spinout prevention than a wheelspin prevention) for $500.

Suddenly this clicked in my head (perhaps I can confirm tomorrow or someone else can), I'm nearly certain my mother's 2006 3 series has DTC. If I remember correctly this is the ASC/traction control and the dynamic stability control together and had a few different settings. First was full on (essentially the traction control and stability control kicked in the second the wheels started spinning or it sensed the back end starting to come around). Then, if you just push it 1x quickly, it more or less increases the threshold as to when the system activates. If I recall correctly they used the example of being stuck in deep snow. Anyone who drives in the deep stuff knows you HAVE to keep momentum and basically power through. If you stop, you're stuck. So by pushing the DTC button 1x, it allows the car to have some wheel spin and some fish-tailing so you can power through deep snow but it doesn't completely turn off the systems (so if you really get into a jam it will turn back on and try to save your butt). Then if you hold it for a certain amount of time you could completely turn the system off.

If I'm recalling this correctly, that is DTC. It is basically the same thing as the current car if you pay the $500 for the stability control. Its traction+stability control. What I don't know (as I don't own the current MINI) is if the current car equipped with the $500 DSC option will allow you to do the "increased threshold" mode of the DTC or if you only either get the traction+stability completely on or completely off.

As far as DSC and LSD, I'm pretty sure you can order a 2008 with both. But I too seriously wonder why you'd need LSD if you had DSC/traction control. If one wheel slips, LSD would transfer the power to the other wheel. Except that's basically what the traction control does. So why would you need both systems?? The only thing I can figure is the LSD is worthless if the traction+stability control is turned on, and is really only there for enthusiasts who like to turn the traction+stability control off but still control wheelspin. Otherwise, if you don't race or plan on ever turning off traction+stability, I can't possibly see how LSD would ever benefit you. Would others agree with this? I'm actually curious as I'm considering an order and am torn on LSD. My Miata has it and it helps a lot in snow....but my Miata has no traction control system. I'm wondering if it is pointless to get LSD if I never plan to shut off the electronics and race or autocross a Mini.

Anyway, hope that helps. Can anyone confirm DTC is as I described on the 3 series?

I probably wouldn't wait for DTC just for that feature. To me, it sounds EXACTLY the same as the current traction control plus the $500 optional DSC. Really the only thing it MIGHT (and I don't know for sure) give you over that setup is the higher threshold before kicking in. Essentially instead of on/off you get on, 80% on, and off. Not worth waiting until december my opinion....

 

Ah, I found this in describing the 3 series. I think I have it correct. Hope this helps:

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is an adjunct to Dynamic Stability Control. When driving on loose gravel or snow, activating DTC increases traction by increasing the tolerance for wheel slip, enabling the BMW 3 Series Convertible to gain better traction. Drivers who appreciate a more sporting driving style can activate DTC to allow for controlled wheel skid, or "drift". DSC takes a back seat and intervenes only when absolutely necessary. If desired, DSC can be completely deactivated.

So the question is, does the current, 2008 Mini with traction ASC+T plus the $500 DSC have the exact same features as the 2009 DTC? They're just calling it DTC now because it all comes together standard???


EDIT: Can someone with a 2007 or 2008 model equipped with DSC type out the section of the owner's manual that describes how to turn on and off the ASC/DSC system? It should tell you there what the different modes are, ie ON, push 1x for increased threshold, hold for X seconds to totally disable all systems, etc.

I would really really appreciate it.

 

but Mini gets a system that doesn't have variable settings, ie, no letting different amounts of spin for snow or more "sporting" driving.

But DSC and LSDs are VERY DIFFERENT! The DSC can brake individual wheels and cut power, but this is to effect weight transfer to aid in cornering. It doesn't act to move power from a light inside wheel on corner exit to the outside, like a limited slip would. The newer electronic systems can act in this way, making the LSD potentially obsolete.

Matt