Did you guys see this in Autoweek?





(08:58 April 28, 2003)
U.S. Mini owners want rear fog lights, say safety is main concern


By RICHARD TRUETT | Automotive News

Hundreds of Mini owners in the United States are seeing red over a safety device for their cars that BMW Group won't turn on.

The item? Rear fog lights.

BMW won't make the lights available to U.S. Mini customers, even as a dealer-installed option, though the lights are standard equipment on cars sold in Europe and most of the equipment already is installed in U.S. market Minis.

As of last week, 626 Mini owners had signed an Internet petition at petitiononline.com/MINI fogs/petition.html requesting that BMW enable the rear fog lights to be activated on their cars.

BMW Group had sold 32,773 Minis in the United States as of April 1.

Activation of the lights requires the installation of a toggle switch and a change in the car's computer software.

The lights are housed in the upper section of the taillights.

Other automakers, such as Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Porsche and Mercedes-Benz, offer rear fog lights, which are of the same brightness as the brake lights.

According to postings on the Mini Web site (MiniUSA.com), many owners want the rear fog lights activated because they fear drivers of trucks won't see their small cars in bad weather.

No other issue has generated as much fuss among Mini owners.

"I have rear fog lights on my Jaguar and use them frequently in low-visibility conditions," wrote Mini owner Al Carr of Shenandoah Valley, Va.

"We have had several severe truck/car accidents during foggy periods. I cannot imagine why Mini USA would disable this important safety feature. I will gladly pay the dealer to turn them on. Please don't delay this."

Michael McHale, Mini communications manager, says BMW's product marketing group, which decides the content in vehicles, opted to make rear fog lights unavailable on the U.S. version of the Mini.

He says Mini and BMW officials are aware of the group of owners asking for the lights, but there are no plans to reverse the product group's decision.

The matter is not scheduled to be discussed again, McHale says.

Some Mini owners who are frustrated over BMW's refusal to offer the lights have figured out how to make them work by soldering a connection in the taillight circuit board.

"There's a minimum lighting requirement that we meet," McHale says.

"We are comfortable with the lighting performance of our cars."

The refusal to offer the lights flies in the face of the friendly relationships that Mini has worked to establish with its customers.

"We just don't do it," McHale says. "No BMWs have them, either."

 

Why disable an option already built into the car. Audi doesn't do it. Mecerdes doesn't do it. Land Rover doesn't do it (hey, and that's owned by BMW!!!!).

Whatever. I've got qual brake lights now.



R

 

Unfortunately, it will take a bad rear-end accident and an agressive tort lawyer to extract a big settlement from BMW and then they will offer it as an option. I can see the presentation to the jury:

Ladies and gentlemen, while offering this "safety device" on all mini's sold outside the US, MINIUSA decided to save $1.50 (or what ever the cost is) on a toggle switch per vehicle so about $20,000 US dollars a year. As a result of this proactive decision to disable a safety feature, Mr. X was rear-ended in a fog which caused him untold suffering that could and should have been avoided. This is not something Mini should have added to their vehicles, it is something they should not have disabled. They even refused to offer it as a dealer installed option for client's willing to pay for it.

I hope it doesn't come to this.

 

Hey....get me a lawyer. I was rear ended and
now have a bulging disc in my cervical spine...
Anyone else rear ended?? :evil:

 

I think Rover got sold to Ford

 

>>Unfortunately, it will take a bad rear-end accident and an agressive tort lawyer to extract a big settlement from BMW and then they will offer it as an option. I can see the presentation to the jury:
>>
>> Ladies and gentlemen, while offering this "safety device" on all mini's sold outside the US, MINIUSA decided to save $1.50 (or what ever the cost is) on a toggle switch per vehicle so about $20,000 US dollars a year. As a result of this proactive decision to disable a safety feature, Mr. X was rear-ended in a fog which caused him untold suffering that could and should have been avoided. This is not something Mini should have added to their vehicles, it is something they should not have disabled. They even refused to offer it as a dealer installed option for client's willing to pay for it.
>>
>>I hope it doesn't come to this.
>>


The true irony of it all is, I don't think BMW saved even $1.50. they probably spent extra to produce the different switch cover to excluded the switch. It would of been easier to keep them all the same.

 

>>As of last week, 626 Mini owners had signed an Internet petition at petitiononline.com/MINI fogs/petition.html requesting that BMW enable the rear fog lights to be activated on their cars.

BMW Group had sold 32,773 Minis in the United States as of April 1.<<


Congratulations, you've managed to get about 2% of Mini owners in the US to sign on so far. When you get 10 times that number, you may actually have an impact on Mini's corporate mind. You can bet they've already consulted their legal staff on the possiblity of a lawsuit and their chances of winning it....and probably did so when they made the decision to delete the lights to begin with.
I'm not saying Mini is totally right here. They should offer the option of having them, if it doesn't conflict with any states' laws...and I'd like to have the option of kicking the first person I find running them when they aren't needed.
I would have liked to have the toggle blank filled in with a switch just for aesthetic appeal and balance in the dash set up, even if it's not hooked up to anything.

 

I think the key to the puzzle is in the last sentence of the Autoweek story...

"No BMWs have them."

I don't think they want the MINI to have a safety/driver's tool enhancement that places it ahead of BMWs in the U.S. market. The MINI is supposed to know its place; remember, it's in the States partly as a tactic to entice people into the BMW tent over the long term.

Meanwhile, my Gothenburg-built (but U.S. spec, obviously) Volvo V70 has the rear fog lights, and they are a great safety feature. I would hope that the MINI's relatively small size on U.S. roads helps tilt the argument in favor of activating the rear fogs.

I also hate having a toggle slot blank.

 

I have observed the BMW motorcycle side of the family for years. BMW has not been very willing to take customer feedback, and has, as a result hurt their sales. I hope MINI will be a different story, but sounds as if the BMW NA manager has dug in his heels already.

 

i did the rear light mod as did Davbret and many other Mini drivers..... but im sure they will offer the rear lights soon, i too would like the toggle because it looks wierd w/ a toggle missing, they sell the panel for 120 dollars which is way too much. i hope when they do offer it though i can reverse my tail light mod, it is cool having it come on w/ the brakes though, really is bright!

 

You know if it was a stock factory feature that would be nice but how many people would actually use it as it was intended?? I did the brake mod as many of us have and I also have done it to about 20 other MINI's for people that have asked me to. I feel safer with the extra brake light now then I would if the switch was enabled. I think most people are just wanting the blank space filled with a switch than really wanting the power of turnung it on in bad conditions. I signed the petition but as someone above said less than 2% signed so far and with those numbers no corporation is going to change their mind anytime soon. This is just MHO.

 

I think it's just asinine not to at least have the lights come on along with the brake lights (we all know how incredibly difficult/expensive this is to achieve ). Especially since the freaking bulbs are even sitting there!

The cool thing about this showing up in Autoweek and generating more buzz (here, for example) is that I bet the petition has a few hundred more signatures by the end of the week! Nice work, whoever started this up.

 

Any UK or Europe MINI owners reading this thread - with a little help from you and your dealers, we might figure how to turn the rear fogs on anyway!

I am working to decode the body control module "SA" KOMBI data - this is a multi digit sequence that your dealer can read out of the body control module; it indicates which options are available in your MINI.

If we can get the "SA" codes from some European cars with the rear fogs functioning, we can see which digits control that feature :smile:

Help needed - PM me please!

 

I've got the rear fogs, and a full set of toggle switches. It really does look better with that extra switch, especially since it's got a cool little yellow LED at the tip of the toggle switch that turns on along with the rear fogs.

 

Are there any regulations in the US about the use of the rear fog lamps? I know that for the front fog lamps they cannot be used with the high beams (my US spec civic works that way, as opposed to euro spec where you can turn them on without the low beams on).

The problem I see with rear fog lamps is that many people (at least in Mexico) have no idea how to use them and turn them on in the city (even under nice weather). Been a victim of these people (specially peugeot drivers) I can tell you the rear fog lamps are very bright and disruptive to cars driving behind you (which may actually cause an accident)

For those who want to connect them, I´d recommend getting the switch, not just making them work in conjunction with the stop lights.

 

>>It really does look better with that extra switch, especially since it's got a cool little yellow LED at the tip of the toggle switch that turns on along with the rear fogs.<<

Now did you HAVE to tell us that, and make the deprivation worse?

 

Could the MCO webmaster be enticed to put a link to the petition on the MCO homepage? I think that as the site content has increased people may have missed something like the petition due to content overload.
If getting BMW of its corporate duff will take 20 times the number of signatories, then let's go after that number.

 

The problem I see with rear fog lamps is that many people (at least in Mexico) have no idea how to use them and turn them on in the city (even under nice weather). Been a victim of these people (specially peugeot drivers) I can tell you the rear fog lamps are very bright and disruptive to cars driving behind you (which may actually cause an accident)

I think the problem would be the same in the US. People would use them as taillights and run them alot more than they should. First off, since they're the same brightness as brake lights this could cause people to wonder if someone's just an idiot riding their brake peddle...Now before you say no it wouldn't, think from the point of view of someone not familiar with the Mini's light set-up. Secondly, it may diminish the effectiveness of the actual brake lights. After riding behind someone with the rear fogs on, you might not be as quick to pick up on when the real brake lights are actuated. Losing a second or two reaction time could mean the difference between a "Holy S**t, Batman, that was close!" and a crumpled front end along with a possible traffic violation for following too close (or any other one they care to write when you've just rear-ended a guy).

For those who want to connect them, I´d recommend getting the switch, not just making them work in conjunction with the stop lights.

There's not a thing wrong with tapping them into the brake lights, because then, they only work when the brakes are applied. Two extra lights popping on will go a long way towards getting someones attention and letting them know that you're slowing or stopping. Remember, you're the one in the "tiny" car with a 7000 pound SUV behind you! I'll take ever advantage I can get to get the message across that they need to back off.

 

>>Hey....get me a lawyer. I was rear ended and
>>now have a bulging disc in my cervical spine...
>>Anyone else rear ended?? :evil:

I wish you still lived in NY, 2minis.....I've had good success with treating herniations in the cervical area. If you'd like, I could PM you some contacts in Florida that might be able to help.

I was rear ended too. The guy that hit me TOLD me he couldn't see my brake lights engaging. I've done the brake light mod since and hope that helps.




_________________

 

Wow, he admitted he wasn't paying ANY attention?

And to address the issue of whether or not people would mistake them for someone riding their brakes, many other manufacturers such as Audi and Volvo only let one side light up with the rear fogs. So you don't become complacent about the lights, as only one side is lit.

R

 

>> I've got the rear fogs, and a full set of toggle switches. It really does look better with that extra switch, especially since it's got a cool little yellow LED at the tip of the toggle switch that turns on along with the rear fogs.

Calvin,
Where are you located?
Do you have a friendly MINI dealer that would print out the "SA" code from the "Coding/Programming R50/R53 series" screen on their computers?
The page looks like:
GM B2330000C
SA 0000000008189888G
VN 00000000014
Chassis number:
TC12345


Or anyone else with rear fogs & a friendly dealer.

 

You know, it's amazing to me that a company the size of BMW; a company with a global reach; a company/industry that is so dependent upon customer satisfaction; can have someone so jerky sounding for their "Communications" manager. Either this guy McHale is a bozo, or (more likely the case) he is so hobbled by the corporate climate that his communications are stiffled to the nasty-sounding statements he ended up making in the Autoweek article. Ugh.

It's sad...'cause as several have noted in this thread...we may love our MINIs, but the company behind them has done relatively little to prove itself worthy of the product they sell.

Yeah, I think I signed the petition -- even though I don't personally care too much about this issue -- but you can bet that the next place I'm going online is the petition site to now MAKE SURE that I signed it.

What kind of company hires a communications director who so angers customers that they end up reacting to the company out of spite? Amazing.

 

Calvin77 lives in Mexico. Remember that Mexican bound MINIs are essentially European spec models. they are not subject to the vehicle regulations that govern cars sold in the US and Canada. Mexican MINIs do not have the side marker lights in the wheel arches, unlike the US/Canada models do. This distinction also applies to the availability of the rear fog lights in the Mexican market.

So I gather our friends south of the border can help you break the feature set code to see which one controls the rear fog lights.

Now the question is...even if we find the code, will this feature still be enabled in the controlling boards of US/Canadian cars? If BMW when the extra mile to create a dedicated 5 toggle switch for our market, maybe our modules are deprived from this option as well?

 

>>Now the question is...even if we find the code, will this feature still be enabled in the controlling boards of US/Canadian cars? If BMW when the extra mile to create a dedicated 5 toggle switch for our market, maybe our modules are deprived from this option as well?<<

I don't think it's necessarily a 5-toggle switch. You get four toggles if you lose DSC, and only three if you drop the front fog lights as well. If they didn't even remove the BULBS from the rear fog lights, I'd wager that they didn't mess with the toggle board, either.

 

Cooper4us,
From what I can find on the ETK & TIS, the body control module has the same part number in all countries ... so I don't think that will be an issue.