R50/53 Brake Light Mod Warranty Issue!
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2nd Gear
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Brake Light Mod Warranty Issue!
Hi all. I have a 2004 MC, in which I had the brake light mod installed when I picked up the car almost two years ago. The other day, I had major electrical problems with the car. The dealer has told me that the problem was caused by the mod and that nothing will be covered under warranty. The damage is $1300.
First, has this happened to anyone else; and second, do I have any recourse or am I totally screwed?
First, has this happened to anyone else; and second, do I have any recourse or am I totally screwed?
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Wichita, Kansas
Unfortunately you are probably screwed. You may get someone telling you about the Magnasson-Moss act but unless you spend thousands in legal fees to go to court and get it decided in your favor....you're screwed.....Im sorry to hear about your troubles.
Now when you say "installed when I picked up the car" does that mean that the dealer installed this mod for you?
Now when you say "installed when I picked up the car" does that mean that the dealer installed this mod for you?
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Back IN Chicopee
Originally Posted by kristina
Hi all. I have a 2004 MC, in which I had the brake light mod installed when I picked up the car almost two years ago. The other day, I had major electrical problems with the car. The dealer has told me that the problem was caused by the mod and that nothing will be covered under warranty. The damage is $1300.
First, has this happened to anyone else; and second, do I have any recourse or am I totally screwed?
First, has this happened to anyone else; and second, do I have any recourse or am I totally screwed?
What was the problem. What are the major electrical problems? Engine or body work? What needed to be fixed? If it was the wiring in the rear tail lights melted then I would say you are definately screwed.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease so I wouldn't just roll over.
But befor anyone give's their .02 to be accurate we need alot more info.
Paul
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2nd Gear
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The module that controls all the electrical stuff (lights, windows, locks, etc.) has to be replaced. I"m sorry, I forget what it's called. I was given no other information other than that the tech is sure that the modification to the tail lights caused the problems.
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I'm not an electrician, so forgive my naiveté, but how could the extra brakelight mod POSSIBLY affect any part of the car, except perhaps the tail lamps????
Could somebody with technical expertise please explain this, in layman's terms?
I ask, because I too, have the extra brakelight modification, so I am obviously concerned now...
Could somebody with technical expertise please explain this, in layman's terms?
I ask, because I too, have the extra brakelight modification, so I am obviously concerned now...
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,062
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From: Boston, MA
How many other hundreds of people have done this mod with no problems?! That's ridiculous - there has to be some way to decide this between "the tech said ____" and getting expensive lawyers involved. I would do a bunch of reading up on how this sytem works in the MINI - if you demonstrate a bit of knowledge, maybe they'll back off of their claim. Arm yourself with figures on the amperes, resistance, etc. involved. I'm sure people here (but not me) can help in this regard. Good luck! 
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 835
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From: Manassas, Virginia
I say contact "Greatbear" I'm sure he'll be able to shed some light on this issue!
Here's his profile on NAM:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ber.php?u=6470
CALLING GREATBEAR, CALLING GREATBEAR!
Here's his profile on NAM:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ber.php?u=6470
CALLING GREATBEAR, CALLING GREATBEAR!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,443
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From: Wichita, Kansas
Originally Posted by jonnieoh
I'm not an electrician, so forgive my naiveté, but how could the extra brakelight mod POSSIBLY affect any part of the car, except perhaps the tail lamps????
Could somebody with technical expertise please explain this, in layman's terms?
I ask, because I too, have the extra brakelight modification, so I am obviously concerned now...
Could somebody with technical expertise please explain this, in layman's terms?
I ask, because I too, have the extra brakelight modification, so I am obviously concerned now...
The earliest breaklight mods I recall was just exactlly that! The mod is basically a jumper in the circuit.
I agree that the mod has been done literally thousands of times without problem BUT the potential for frying your ECU is certainly there!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Wichita, Kansas
Originally Posted by Agro
Mr Bridger, yes. It's a simple mod. Remove the access panel in the boot. Reach in and unclip the light assembly. It's a circuit board with 3 lights on the outside side. Using a piece of wire, a diode or even a paperclip, short wires 1 and 4. Re-install the board, making sure to have the wiring harness BEHIND the board (towards the front of the car). replace the access panel. Repeat for the other side.
For a more detailed look
http://www.littlemini.us/technical/brakemod/index.asp
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 835
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From: Manassas, Virginia
Originally Posted by planeguy
Stick a paperclip in the light socket and let me know if your breaker flips or your house burns down
Edit:
In case you haven't seen that before its from a video of a guy playing a joke on his friend (guy on the right) Guy on the left is fixing a switch and pretends to be electrocuted. Friend flips out and throws the Banana at him!
LINK TO VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/?v=e28YeSHkhn8
Isn't this what fuses are for?
Really, if the control unit (it's not the ECU, it's one of the body control modules behind one of the kick panels), it should be able to handle this mod without frying. The problem you have run into is they already know that you had the mod.
There are some specs that come into play. That is the current draw of both set ups, and the output current rating of the unit. Ask them to show you that the unit isn't rated for the load of the mod. But I fear you're screwed.
If you'd yanked the mod before going in, they'd be eating the part.
Also, use one of the used part locating services on the web. I bet you can get the module from a wrecking yard for $200 or so. You may have to get your set of features enabled at a dealer, but I think you can save a ton of money if you search for a used part.
Afterall, there are lots of Mini's that have been overdriven and kissed a tree or equivalent...
Matt
There are some specs that come into play. That is the current draw of both set ups, and the output current rating of the unit. Ask them to show you that the unit isn't rated for the load of the mod. But I fear you're screwed.
If you'd yanked the mod before going in, they'd be eating the part.
Also, use one of the used part locating services on the web. I bet you can get the module from a wrecking yard for $200 or so. You may have to get your set of features enabled at a dealer, but I think you can save a ton of money if you search for a used part.
Afterall, there are lots of Mini's that have been overdriven and kissed a tree or equivalent...
Matt
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by planeguy
Stick a paperclip in the light socket and let me know if your breaker flips or your house burns down
The earliest breaklight mods I recall was just exactlly that! The mod is basically a jumper in the circuit.
The earliest breaklight mods I recall was just exactlly that! The mod is basically a jumper in the circuit.
I had a BC1 problem with my car before, not due to the brakelight mod, but they said my LED brake lights messed up the BC1 and the brake pedal switch (yeah, right)
if the idiot would have told me it was just a $25 dollar switch, it would have saved me the $400 install cost.
Yet another reason i'll NEVER go back to Classic BMW/MINI's service bay for work!!!!
if the idiot would have told me it was just a $25 dollar switch, it would have saved me the $400 install cost.
Yet another reason i'll NEVER go back to Classic BMW/MINI's service bay for work!!!!
Coordinator :: Pitt Stop MINI
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,919
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From: Steelers Country
As Chris metioned above, I think it would certainly behoove you to do some reading - also including the Magnuson Moss Act. I am not a lawyer, nor have I had to wrangle with this issue before, but I believe that they need show verifiable PROOF that it was the mod that caused the failure. Just telling you they believe it was the problem - no matter how convicingly - isn't proof.
...Of course, it all depends how much $1,300 means to you. It would mean at least a few hours of reading and research if it were me.
Good luck!
...Of course, it all depends how much $1,300 means to you. It would mean at least a few hours of reading and research if it were me.
Good luck!
That's not the law...
Originally Posted by JRZYMINI
I imagine how mod's affect your warranty are at the discression of the dealer... maybe you can find a different dealer for a second opinion?
Matt
6th Gear
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From: Huntsville, Alabama
If I'm not mistaken. On cars without the optional fog light enabled, there was no worry to supply power to this wire as it basically is not going to affect anything at the other end. I doubt if the doubling of the bulbs caused a problem as the fuse should have blown if there was an issue. The only thing I can think is if something in the switch panel shorted and caused problems with the DME.
MINI techs are the worst people I know for inventing excuses too either get you to leave with the problem or get money out of you.
What concerns did you have that made you take your MINI in?
MINI techs are the worst people I know for inventing excuses too either get you to leave with the problem or get money out of you.
What concerns did you have that made you take your MINI in?
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2nd Gear
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This is Mini of San Francisco. What happened is that I parked the car in the garage and noticed that one of the rear tail lights was still illuminated even after the engine was off, key was out, etc. Some hours later, the front light (the one below the headlight) was also illuminated. Since this was late at night on a weekend, I couldn't do anything about it. By the next day, the battery had run down.
Right before this happened, I had the hazards on for about 10 minutes. Could this have caused a short and the ensuing frying of the BC1?
Right before this happened, I had the hazards on for about 10 minutes. Could this have caused a short and the ensuing frying of the BC1?
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 835
Likes: 1
From: Manassas, Virginia
Originally Posted by kristina
This is Mini of San Francisco. What happened is that I parked the car in the garage and noticed that one of the rear tail lights was still illuminated even after the engine was off, key was out, etc. Some hours later, the front light (the one below the headlight) was also illuminated. Since this was late at night on a weekend, I couldn't do anything about it. By the next day, the battery had run down.
Right before this happened, I had the hazards on for about 10 minutes. Could this have caused a short and the ensuing frying of the BC1?
Right before this happened, I had the hazards on for about 10 minutes. Could this have caused a short and the ensuing frying of the BC1?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,233
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From: San Francisco
This same topic has come up before: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?p=639507. In that case, the poster did manage to get it covered under warranty. However, at that time our electronics guru GBMINI (Ian Cull, inventor of the auto-up circuit) had this to say:
If you have electrical problems, it would be advisable to remove the mod before going to the dealer!
Originally Posted by GBMINI
I think you are very lucky. If I was the tech, I probably would have stuck with the no-warranty issue.
The fact is that yes many MINIs have this brake light / rear fog mod.
BUT what the mod actually does is to double the load on the brake light circuits coming out of the BC1.
The BC1 is designed to drive 2 x 21W bulbs (one each side), and the center brake light. The mod connects a second 21W bulb to each side.
Obviously this mod increases the load on the BC1 beyond that which it was designed. We can say it should survive a short-circuit, but a doubled load is not the same as a short and actually could do more harm than a true short (because the true short will be detected and protected from, while the overload will leave the BC1 trying to work normally).
So to my mind, if you do the mod and the BC1 fails, it is caused by your mod which you chose to do, and you should expect no warranty.
PS: Lucky for you I am not a MINI tech
The fact is that yes many MINIs have this brake light / rear fog mod.
BUT what the mod actually does is to double the load on the brake light circuits coming out of the BC1.
The BC1 is designed to drive 2 x 21W bulbs (one each side), and the center brake light. The mod connects a second 21W bulb to each side.
Obviously this mod increases the load on the BC1 beyond that which it was designed. We can say it should survive a short-circuit, but a doubled load is not the same as a short and actually could do more harm than a true short (because the true short will be detected and protected from, while the overload will leave the BC1 trying to work normally).
So to my mind, if you do the mod and the BC1 fails, it is caused by your mod which you chose to do, and you should expect no warranty.
PS: Lucky for you I am not a MINI tech
Originally Posted by jonnieoh
I ask, because I too, have the extra brakelight modification, so I am obviously concerned now...
That said, if you have some problem just take the jumpers out before you go to the dealer.
OTOH, if someone soldered a diode or something else in there there is no telling what they did and what they left exposed. But if there is a short, I can't imaging what could happen other than a fuse blowing.
Just my thoughts.
Rich