Ok guys, I got my mcs on 05/27 and its my first car to ever drive a manual. As I am slowly getting better, i still seem to have a hard time getting into first smoothly. This is driving me crazy as it takes me a few seconds to get into first and sometimes it can be jerky or I will give it a little more gas then I should. Do you guys have any tips to improve on this? Anything that will be of help? It would be much appreciated. :smile:

Garrett

 

Getting out of first gear, use a "2 step" smooth clutch release method. Apply gas, release clutch pedal half way, then once the car gets going, release clutch fully. Takes a bit of practice but it works well and it won't jerk you or your passengers around. The MINI is one of the easiest and most forgiving manual transmission cars I have ever driven. The clutch in the 2005's "bite" a lot sooner making it easier for smooth start ups.

Once you get over the "fear" of 1st gear, you'll be golden .

Also I would suggest to practice in an empty mall parking lot until you begin to feel comfortable with the clutch and transmission. Keep in mind not to "ride" the clutch to avoid premature wear and whenever the car is not in motion, keep the tranny in neutral and the clutch pedal out (Not depressed).

 

Practice, Practice, Practice. Take it to an empty parking lot and practice just taking off in 1st. Sounds like you are letting the clutch out too fast and maybe not enough gas. The MCS tends to bog taking off so it can be a bit tricky.
As for shifting into 1st, I had a bit of hard time with this when I got my car. It had been years since i owned a manual and i kepting shifting through the gate into Reverse. Again just get used to thecar with lots of practice cured me of that.
Just get lots of seat time and you will be shifting smoothly in no time.

Cheers

 

That "2 step" method seems like a good way to get better. What i am doing is releasing the clutcha little and then giving it some gas and when i feel the car is moving I then release the clutch and give more gas. So i should give a little gas first then release the clutch half way and when it starts to move I release the rest of it? How much gas should i give it? I would assume just a little? It it drives me crazy when i jerk the car or stale it. I was told by a friends father that he taught his kids just to practive moving up the hill and then roll down and then move up it and roll down until the got the hang of it. As i drive in traffic on the highway, when I need to slow down alot, does anyone have and good tips for traffic times with out me riding the clutch? I would hate to cause premature wear on the clutch from doing that.

Garrett

And thanks again for the suggestions!!!

 

Here's a little trick to learn 1st on a hill (not in real traffic).

Pull up on the parking break, then while holding it up start pulling out the clutch while pushing on the accelerator while slowly lowering the parking break. Gives you great practice on getting the hardest part of driving a stick without worring about rolling backwards, panacking and stalling or jerking the car.

- John

 

Yeah, give it a little more gas while at the same time releasing the clutch halfway as this ensures the engine is getting enough power for a smooth take off. Otherwise, the car has a tendency to bog down. you will need to practice the "2-step" method (Which was taught to me by a seasoned rally car driver/instructor back in 1985) so you don't give the car too much gas (Tire chirping) or not enough (bog down). In the MCS finding the "sweet spot" is important because the engine puts a lot of torque down to the front wheels causing them to momentarily lose traction (Situation easily corrected by the ASC/DSC and LSD devices).

Also, whenever possible, try to practice going out of 1st gear in the rain or on a wet road surface.

I am sure you got the idea, so now all you have to do is invest time practicing until your launches become smooth and transparent to you and your passengers.

 

I think the 2 step is what you want to eventually learn to do, but it sounds like you aren't giving enough gas since you are jerking and stalling. I don't know if this will help, but conceptually think of it like a seesaw. As the clutch gets released the gas is getting pressed. Each moving at the same speed and distance as the other, just in opposite directions. As you get better at it you can do it faster for quicker and smoother acceleration. (I do this with every gear, not just first btw. I shift the same way for every gear.)

Whenever I'm in traffic and I need to slow down I tend to just put the car in neutral and hit the brakes. When I can speed up again I put it into whatever gear I would normally be in at that speed.

 

When coming to a full stop, little by little you can learn to "Rev match" your downshifts according to vehicle/engine speed while braking. This is the more ideal way of stopping a stick shift car but it is not always feasible or practical gicen road/traffic conditions. The idea is for you to assist your brakes in stopping the car by means of using engine braking power. Cars equipped with good automatic transmissions do this for you. However the danger is that if you make a mistake you run the risk of overrevving the engine thus eventually causing more costly damage. But practicing "engine braking" or "Rev match" saves your break pads, although most will argue that it is cheaper to replace brake pads than doing engine repairs and I happen to agree.

For the time being, when approaching a traffic light or a Stop sign (Or stopping for any other reason), simply put the car in Neutral and release the clutch while braking. That's all. However, don't do this going on a steep downhill as the "dead weight" of the car may overwhelm the brakes, thus overheating them. This is something to keep in mind when doing mountain driving. Notice how most people "ride" the brakes going downhill, when in reality you should be "rev matching" or engine braking to help slow down the car and assist the brakes to prevent fading.

Don't fret. Driving a stick shift car is an art and like any other activity it requires lost of practice and most important of all, be patient with yourself!

 

I agree There is not a "set" premeasure of how much gas you should give it at any given point. You need to find the "sweet spot" in which your car doesn't jerk/bog or the tires chirp.

 

One additional suggestion I would make is to turn DSC off before you start out... With my '05 MCS with Limited Slip Diff, there's sometimes too much lag in the DSC's response to wheel-slip when starting from a stop - I have intuitively already corrected throttle input manually and am working the clutch position to compensate, when EURRRRRR - DSC drains my engine power for me right when I need it to avoid being rear-ended by the overeager driver in line behind me!

I'm not certain if this behavior is related to the LSD, but I've observed it on several occassions.

If anyone has any input on this, I'd be interested in hearing it.

On topic: The recommendations for the "two-step" clutch method seem very sensible to me. I had never heard it described or labelled like this before, but it's pretty much what I've done with every manual-transmission car I've driven in the last 30 years.

One more suggestion: You might want to skip the part about "not riding the clutch" - at the very least until you get completely comfortable with operating it. I tend to keep the clutch pedal depressed at traffic signals, or in stop & go traffic even now - I agree that it increases wear on the clutch mechanism, transmission, and shifter linkage, but during this learning phase it will give you fewer things to worry about, and later on, it provides an additional degree of safety: It's a lot easier to avoid getting rear-ended by someone when your car is already in gear and you can get out of the way by moving forward (even a little).

I find that I'm only shifting to neutral and getting off the clutch when I know I'll be stopped for a long time, and/or when there's little chance of another car coming up from behind suddenly.

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
_Dave_

 

I found the sweet spot for the clutch to kick in and starts pulling the car. Should i try to allow the clutch to move the car first and then start applying gas? Ill just have to find a quiet location and practice some tonight. Its sometimes scary when you have people on your *** at a light and afraid to back into them.

Garrett

 

Don't be afraid to give it more gas! Chirp the tires if you have to and then adjust the amount of gas you input from there. If you let the clutch move the car and not much gas input = Jerking/bogging/stalling.

 

am0eba,

My MA told me to turn the DSC off whenever you get into the car. He said when it rains or the weather is crappy to turn it on to help with traction, but to turn it off otherwise as it will prevent the car trying to interfear. I really have not tried turning it off, but ill give that a shot and try out the 2 step method out. I know it comes in practice, but it can be frustrating and scary when you really need to be smooth when it comes to some traffic conditions.

Garrett

 

Applying the gas early (before you start to release the clutch) is easier when you are learning. Trying to hit the sweet spot perfect every time is difficult and I know I never try to unless I'm really bored in stop and go traffic and want the car to move without hitting the gas.

You should also remember your foot position is probably not "exactly" in the same place every time so the angle of your clutch foot will vary slightly for the sweet spot. And if you drive with your music loud you will have no audible cues for when you hit the sweet spot.

And last bit of advice, don't worry about stalling. Take your time, restart the car, and go forward. When you panic is when you end up stalling a bunch of times in a row and get a ton of people honking at you. It takes less time for you to restart the car then it does for someone to stop doing their makeup or paying attention while on a cell phone.

 

It is generally not recommended to put the transmission into neutral while the car is moving. This would prevent you from applying power to accelerate suddenly to get out of an accident situation, should the need arrise.

garrtewp,
I taught both of my children to drive a manual tranny. The most difficult part is learning the "feel" of the clutch. What I found very helpful was to have them practise moving away from a standing start without putting their foot on the accelerator at all. This is best done in an empty parking lot. It teaches a feel for just how much the clutch grabs and how to let the clutch slip. You should be able to get the car moving, slowly, without stalling in a few minutes of practise.:smile:

Slipping the clutch like this is not something you would want to do, or need to do regularly. But it is very educational. Once this is mastered you would begin to add some gas as you let out the clutch.

And, as others have said. Practise, practise, practise.

If you find that you have the engine up at 2000 or 3000rpm to get moving, you will be replacing your clutch as often as you replace tires, or sooner. With proper use a clutch should last over 100,000 miles. All of the vehicles that I have owned have all gone well over 100,000 miles on the original clutch. Wether we are talking classic VW bugs or F-150 pick-ups.

 

To be blunt, your MA is an idiot. That is very bad advice! (now where is that thumbs DOWN emoticon?) In normal driving you will not even know the DSC is there. The only time the DSC should be de-activated is deep snow as it is sometimes necessary to have the wheels spinning in order to either get moving of keep moving, especially when ascending a hill. I have over 31,000miles on my MCS and the only times the DSC activates is in the snow or ice and on the Auto-X course

IMHO if you are activating the DSC on public highways you might want to examine your driving style. At least let me know when you will be in my neighborhood so that I might stay off the roads until you are gone. :smile:

 

I'm pretty sure he was asking about driving in traffic, and from my personal experience in normal traffic driving in LA, SD, SF, NYC and DC, if you can brake in traffic without going to neutral then you must downshift from 5th/6th gear to 2nd very quickly. When you have to brake quickly and regularly in city or rush-hour highway driving it really isn't feasible or practical to downshift. I'd even say it is safer to go to neutral so you can quickly shift to the right gear and accelerate rather then trying to downshift through gears in a few seconds and get caught mid-shift or in the wrong gear.

 

I would agree, but rephrase it to say that brake pads are cheaper than engine/clutch/drivetrain wear.

When I was younger, downshifting to a stop seemed cool Now, it seems pointless. I've had numerous debates with people who claim it helps you stop quicker, but I am positive that it does not.

---------

Anyway, to the original poster... new drivers tend to focus on how much gas they're giving the car. This is only part of the problem, and usually not the main one. Most people have very little control of their left foot. My guess is that you're letting the clutch out too slow to start with, then as the car gets moving you're releasing it too quickly. The car would never be jerky if you were releasing the clutch too slowly.

BTW, I've only seen one new driver ever who was releasing too slow ("riding the clutch"). I suppose the rest of us are just impatient creatures.

 

Looks like i will have to find a nice quiet area tonight and practice for a little bit. I would hate to be that creepy black mini driving around the area many times! LOL

Garrett

 

Let us know how it goes and don't hesitate to ask questions. may be between all of us we can give you more pointers to help you refine your shifting technique.

 

The more tips the better. That is one of the reasons for buying a manual. When I decided to get a new car I said to myself i need to get a manual so i can learn to drive one. And with the rough start right now, there is one good out come! It is fun to drive! So please if anyone has any more suggestions do not hesitate to tell me. I can not wait to get out of work to try out some of the tips you guys suggested. At what rpm range do you suggest i be at when i go to bring the clutch out half way for it to grab? I do not want to give it to much gas and sometimes i tend to do that or again i give it to little.

Garrett

 

In order to get proficient with a manual transmission:

Three words, and it doesn't matter what order you take them in.


Practice


Practice


Practice


And an empty flat parking lot is a good idea.

 

Okay, here's two more cents worth of experience. The DSC is downright dangerous. I have a JCWS. When I hop on the pedal, especially coming out of a driveway or side street with the wheels turned, the car comes to a complete halt. It evens occurs at less than full pedal. The downside of not using hte DSC is that the wheels just tend to hop up on the springs until there is enough traction to get moving. I've concluded that MINI motoring, like sailing, is a series of compromises - more art than science. Agreeing with the others - practice practice.:thumbsup:

 

I'll second (twentyth?) the idea of two staging the clutch. I learned how to drive a stick on my dads '78 911 (fun now, not so much fun then ) and that was the only way i could ever get the thing to go smoothly. I also would agree that if you are two-staging the clutch and still are jerking its probably because you're not releasing smoothly once the car starts rolling. However, without the amount of practice that comes from years and 100,000's miles behind the wheel you will probably not ever get rid of the jerkiness completely. While you may get extremely smooth, don't be dissapointed in yourself if its not a seamless transition from stop to go. I know after 7 years and better than half a million miles i still make mistakes and chirp the tires or bog the engine, and once in a while i even manage to stall (but if you tell anyone I'm coming after ya ) thats just part of driving a stick. practice your heart out, dont worry too much about it in day to day driving, and you'll get there. The most important thing to do is not force it. If you think too hard about it you'll end up making things worse, just let it happen naturally.

 

I can vouch for that. I just learned to drive manual transmission in my MCS too (have had it for 3 months now). The first day I had it I was first in line at a light with a slight grade uphill waiting to turn left to enter the freeway. I must've stalled it 10 times if I stalled it once . I kept getting more nervous and panicky with each stall. I had a line of traffic behind me and I was worried about A) rolling back into them, B) stalling and holding up traffic and C) just looking like an idiot. I had my coach/co-pilot with me and he was doing his best to talk me through it. So I wound up doing B (over and over) even though that's exactly what I was trying to avoid. I almost engaged the parking brake and jumped out of the car to tell him to drive. Well, after who-knows-how-many tries I finally got going and the lady in the ginormous SUV directly behind me passed me as soon as we got onto the freeway. I gave her a shoulder shrug and she just looked and . She never honked, never gave me the finger, never seemed upset. That made me feel better. I could deal with her laughing. I guess she understood what was going on with the temporary tags and all.

So, uh, moral of the story... uh, it happens to all of us. Don't panic, and definitely practice in a parking lot.

Back to the OP - now that I've had my car for 3 months I've gotten more comfortable and I'm doing pretty well with my shifting (I think). I can empathize with you completely. I still stall my car about once a week it seems. But now I calmly restart and go on my way and usually no one is the wiser. I too struggled with starting out in first. I was always afraid to give too much gas to start but I found out that that's not a problem really. After going to the Dragon and seeing/hearing what other people do I just kind of imitated them.

I'm glad I read this thread because I too was letting the clutch up a little before giving some gas. I like the description and easy explanation of the 2-step "method" - .