or, less abled if you will

i was in quite a bad motorcycle accident in early 03, and so still have some weakness in my legs, especially the muscle in my left leg that i would be using to lift my foot from the dead pedal onto the clutch and then back. not to mention the ability to push down but not lift up my toes at the ankle in that same foot.

so, being the industrious person i am, im doing lots and lots of searches for a place in phx that would do the conversion to a hand clutch integrated into the shift lever. however barring that im going to design one my self.

this is not going to be an 'on/off' system since a clutch pedal is analog and there are times especially in first when you dont want to just instantly take your foot off.

i've got a decent background tech and craft to do this, but if anyone out there would be interested in collaborating on this project and has the requisite backgrounds in electronics and fabrication i would really appreicate a pm.

 

Someone else posted a similar question a while back, and I did a Google search and found a company that did conversions (though not necessarily on MINIs). I can't find the thread right now, but is that what you are looking for, or do you want to do it yourself?

 

can this possibly be something along the line your are looking for??

http://www.tiger-racing.com/controls.html

Earl

 

i know the post youre talking about, and i went to that site, very much seemed that their conversion was an on/off system, either the clutch is engaged or its not.

as for this tiger racing site, i bears investigation i will admit, but really all i need is something to engage the clutch in an analog fashion without using my left leg. thanks for pointing me to it, i will send them off an email.

 

Why not just get the automatic?

 

:smile:

 

well first off becuase i dont want to and i dont plan on having difficulty clutching my entire life.

and second, no paddle shifters in the US and its too much trouble to buy it and have it sent to me from elsewhere in the world.

sides, the way mini drivers are, auto will prolly lower its value:P

 

I'm confused by your comment here... The MCSa does indeed have paddleshifters, and from what I've heard the MCSa is an exceptionally good car.

I'll second the automatic suggestion, in the long run this will be easier to do and cost less than the setup you're trying to engineer.

Before you rule it out and look modify a manual, I think you owe it to yourself to go and test drive both an automatic Cooper and Cooper S...

 

hmmm, guess i misread... could swear the MCSa was just a slush box in the us and that the european models got the paddles. If i can find one with paddleshifters in phoenix to test drive i will indeed consider getting one.

edit 1minute after post: HEY!! would you look at that, went to mini.com and there it is, auto with paddles:P *feels stupid* ah well, still gonna test drive both, dont know for sure that a manual is out of the question for me yet even given my disabilities:smile:

 

It's still a slushbox.
It's just a slushbox with paddle shifters.

 

Kind of working backwards here and with a couple of suppositions that may be untrue, but here goes.

I've done a number of conversions from hand clutch to foot clutch on motorcycles, and working the other way around shouldn't be too bizarre. If the MINI clutch is hydraulic, and somebody will correct me if it isn't, it shouldn't be too big a deal to rig up a motorcycle hand clutch lever and master cylinder to the shift lever on the MINI. You could run a braided stainless hose from the master cylinder on the shift lever down the lever, throught the boot (no, the shift boot, not the trunk) and down to the clutch slave cylinder.

You'd need to figure out the correct size master cylinder for the job, but somebody can probably post the correct size of the current clutch master cylinder.

You'd need the motorcycle clutch lever and master cylinder, an appropriate length of braided steel line ( I wouldn't use any other kind of plumbing in this application with the risk of abrasion to the hose that it poses), and fittings.

The easiest way to fasten the clutch handle to the shifter would probably be to weld a flat plate to the shifter that you could bolt the clutch lever assembly to directly. The handlebar clamp for the clutch lever assembly is either going to be 1 inch or 7/8 inch, which is way bigger than the shift lever and you'd never be able to shim it enough for it to be stable.

Ought to work, and when your leg is healed all you'd need to do to is replace the shift lever and reattach the stock plumbing. It'd be like you'd never done it.

The only potential issue I see is the starter lockout. That may be hydraulic as well, running off something similar to a brake light switch. That'd be an easy fix with a t-fitting and a pressure switch.

If any of this isn't clear, PM me and we can talk offline about it.

Hope this helps.

 

actually it had been my original inclination to do just that. but i thought the clutch might be too firm to be squeezing the shift lever reliably. sigh, best solutions are usually the simple ones tho.

 

Ah, that's the beauty of a hydraulic clutch. You can get as much boost as you want, reducing the perceived effort at the hand lever, but adjusting the size of the clutch master cylinder to slave cylinder ratio. You can get, within very large limits, as little effort at the lever as you want by jerrymandering that ratio. You need to be aware, though, that the more boost you have at the clutch lever the less feel you have through the lever for the engagement point.

Shoot, man, millions of people worldwide ride motorcycles with hand clutches. It's the standard way of doing it. It's no big deal.

I only know how to work this stuff because I'm a recalcitrant old school sumbitch and like to ride a foot clutch with a hand shift so I converted my Harley from a cable operated hand actuated clutch with a foot shift to a hydraulically operated foot activated clutch with a hand shifter.

But that's getting way off topic.

 

Try the auto MCS, it surprised me and I think it will suprise you as well. Most of the naysayers are biased for the sake of it and havent even tried driving one with an open mind IMHO.

The clutch modifications sound interesting but, as with any mods, have potential warranty/dealer headache rammifications you may not want to deal with if you have an alternative - if you want to switch to a manual later on the MCSa should have a good resale.

At first I thought you might be looking for a clutch extender for the disabled - something to make the clutch/brake/gas closer- which I had to get for my M Coupe (yes I'm short . In the event anyone needs them:

http://www.pedalextenders.com/

Cheers

 

thanks spunky, didnt realize it would be 'that easy' to alter such a simple mod! guess its time to start learning hydraulics:smile: as for hand clutches being the standard for millions of people world wide, well, i was one of those millions of people till i was rolled over by an 18wheeler so i am familiar with the motions of foot shift hand clutch

Eval, i will be calling the Scottsdale dealer here in AZ to see if they have an MCSa, and if not i guess ill put a call out to all the valley drivers and see if there is one i can take for a 5minutes spin. I cant nay say about it since i havent driven it yet, and i do think that the car deserves a fair shake

 

I've been thinkign about this since you posted it... and thought of the moto-hand cutch as well... You would definitely need to do some hydraulic calculations to make sure a motorcycle master cylinder can push enough fluid at a reasonable effort to move an automotive clutch fork the required distance. Automotive clutch plates are much stiffer than moto clutches as there is a lot more low-end torque to control. It's definitely "possible"... but anything is possible of you're willing to throw enough money at it, and even then, you still can't break the laws of physics. A H-D clutch lever would be the first one I'd look at as thier engines are "torqueier" than most.

Another idea would be a lever-controlled, proportional electric servo actuator. Less intrusive (and potentially messy - I prefer to keep pressurized fluids outside of the passenger compartment) than a hydro system, but the same physics problems apply - mainly finding an actuator with the power to push the clutch fork.

Personally, I think you would be better off leasing a MCSA for a year or two and then getting a manual car when your leg is fully healed.

 

Ian's right. If you could work out the electronics, it'd be a cleaner system than hydraulics would. I don't know electrics, but I've mucked about a little with hydraulics so that's what occurred to me.

But the best solution of all is probably Ian's suggestion to lease an auto for year and see what happens with your leg.

 

my leg is as healed as its going to get without me just sitting in a chiar and pretending to press a clutch an hour a day for 6months im seriously considering this very tact since itll be a 5month wait for my car anyway

but yeh, i was originally thinking to use an electric actuator which even tho i have an electronics background I would not mind some help on.

My inclination was to develop a **** for the shifter with a thumb button on the side, the button would 'rack and pinion' style turn a spring loaded wheel (for resistance's sake, and so the button comes back out) whos rotation would directly correlate to how far the actuator would depress. the arm of the actuator could be attatched to the stem of the clutch pedal directly behind the pedal so you could either choose to use the actuator or actually use the clutch your self. The only issue is balancing response time, size, and the force needed to actually depress the clutch.

oh, heh if anyone just wants to go ahead and steal this idea i dont mind, so long as i get one of the first working production models!

 

With hope you'll really get to wring it out in the real manual mode (it has to be in 'Sport" mode first then shift to each gear - some people flip the paddles while it is just in 'Drive' during a test drive and that is not really in manual per se, behaves differently). I have to say my 20 minute test drive with the sales guy was only okay as compared to how the car is now; I didn't really get to experience the improved response etc until after it adapted and I could really maximize it

 

well, life conspired to keep me from even calling today so to prepare me, perhaps you can tell me exactly how to make sure its in manual 'sport' mode?

 

a friend of mine finally let me see if i was still able to drive his manual car:D yay i can! still gonna test drive the auto tho:P