R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 R50 Rattle or knock or ping or racket

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Old Jan 4, 2023 | 04:39 PM
  #1  
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R50 Rattle or knock or ping or racket

So I've been racking my brain fixing this thing...it makes what seems like a rod knock I guess after replaying the rocker arms, and changing out the cat converter. I also ran it without the belt to rule out any pulleys. The timing chain is tight and seems to work as it should.
One thing strange it made a weird loud whooshing sound as I pulled into the garage, but didn't record it. HELP!

 

Last edited by miniwages; Jan 4, 2023 at 04:56 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 06:20 AM
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Sounds like an exhaust leak.

I did have a car manifest a dull/deep knocking sound on cold start. Proved to be a bad converter. Road debris impact years prior caused the brick to come lose in converter housing. It buzzed when hot. Cold it was quiet but over the years the cold knocking appeared. And hot buzzing noise got worse. At work people would clap their hands over their ears when I rolled in...

But you replaced the converter. But this means you were at the exhaust. So exhaust leak is my keyboard diagnosis...
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 06:56 AM
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From: Under the car. As per normal.
Kind of sounds like it's missing but if it were you'd get a light. Underhood video / audio might help discern more. Also going with last thing touched, i.e. exhaust manifold leak.
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 07:40 AM
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It was making the same sound before I replaced the exhaust header/cat system. I replaced it and still has the same sound. Then I replaced all the exhaust rocker arms and double-checked the intake hydraulic lifters, all were moving a millimeter each. Timing chain seems a little tight, and I can hear the chain rattle when I start it but that goes away like normal.
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 07:52 AM
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Have you checked for codes? It sounds like intermittent cylinder misfire. How are the plugs? Check wire condition and resistance. Coil good? Plug and wires to coil good? If you have been. Working on the top end and replaced the cat then you have been pulling wires and coil plug off and on too.
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 10:00 AM
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NO CODES, compression: 1 = 150, and the rest are 179ish so that's a little concerning plugs all look great... the wires are new. The coil is used, may need to check it...but no codes. zero codes. may try to see real time info. Oil has always been changed, but it was sitting a couple of years with the same oil in it...I'm going to change it,
If I can't get a definitive solution, this is next:
Pull the oil pan and have a look and probably refresh the timing chain assembly...maybe a new oil pump...but not yet till I get more info.
 

Last edited by miniwages; Jan 5, 2023 at 10:06 AM.
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 10:50 AM
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What about the hydraulic chain guide? New/old? Stuck? Easiest way (for me) to pull it was from the passenger side wheel arch.

also read a recent string about a guy who replaced his HG and ended up w a lot of racket in the top end. Turned out one of the rocker arms was not set right.

might be worth pulling the vc to check
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 12:42 PM
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Here is another video, started to get worse and the engine died, I have a auto starter on it now and when I spin it, is sounds normal. Seems internal, I will take off the VC again and check the timing chain guides. wow its bad, can't drive it like this.
Here's another one

 

Last edited by miniwages; Jan 5, 2023 at 02:26 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 01:26 PM
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Its getting worse, I think I have to have it towed to my workshop, but first I'll pull the VC may be something simple like a stuck chain guide, or rocker arm collapse but I HIGHLY DOUBT IT.

UPDATE: Just checked the compression all at near 180 PSI, seems something is rattling around in the crankcase...but may not be bearings? oil tube? ????? PLUGS ALL LOOKED PERFECT.
 

Last edited by miniwages; Jan 5, 2023 at 09:13 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 05:49 PM
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Since you took the video from the interior of the car, I cannot tell if the clacking in the video is from the engine or from a component (like exhaust hitting the body). What does it sound like under the bonnet and under the car at idle? Is the clacking noise present under the car at idle?
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 06:04 PM
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You might also try pulling wires off the coil (one by one) with the car running to confirm that it really is a cylinder problem. If you pull the wire off cyl 1 while it’s running and then it runs worse, you know cyl 1 is OK. If you pull a wire and there is no change in the motor, then you have found your suspect. From there you will have to determine if it is fuel (injector) air (valve) or fire (plug, wires or coil).
 
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Old Jan 5, 2023 | 07:41 PM
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compression is 180 all four. I think something came loose on the bottom end ...bearing? When I spin it without plugs it sounds normal...I think. I revved it pretty hard and the clanking got worse...if I take it to my shop, I'll have it towed..
 
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Old Jan 6, 2023 | 11:38 AM
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That does not sound like a rod bearing issue. Have you checked your serpentine belt tensioner? It's possible that one or both bushings have disintegrated at the end(s) of the hydraulic rod that is and integral part of the tensioner. That can make a racket just like the timing chain death rattle. If you remove the passenger-side wheel well liner, it's right in front of you.
 
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Old Jan 6, 2023 | 02:44 PM
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number four rod bearing was partially spun, it didn't damage the crank. So...probably install a set and get a new oil pump
 

Last edited by miniwages; Jan 13, 2023 at 12:42 PM.
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Old Jan 7, 2023 | 07:32 AM
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Sorry about the bad news. Are you going to do the work with the engine in the car?
 
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Old Jan 7, 2023 | 10:20 AM
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YEs, I ordered a set of king bearings standard size, since that was in there originally (been rebuilt about 100k ago) Crank looks perfect. Ordering ARP bolts and a new oil pump too. The top end is great, not sure why the bearings failed...suspecting weak oil pump internals.
 
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Old Jan 10, 2023 | 08:56 AM
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From: Under the car. As per normal.
'Wannabes' with 'incorrect problems.' Nice way to introduce yourself. It did sound exhaust related - based on your horrible quality videos. Especially the one from inside the car.
You come here knowing nothing about the issue, rightfully concerned and asking for help. We tried to help, you found out on your own the issue was something different than some of our best guesses based on your brilliant cinematography, but you just couldn't resist smugly dunking on us anyway because you were so much smarter than us all along.

At least we know who you are now.










 
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Old Jan 10, 2023 | 09:30 AM
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And I know who you are now a pompous ***.
 
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Old Jan 11, 2023 | 05:39 AM
  #19  
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From: Under the car. As per normal.
Originally Posted by miniwages
And I know who you are now a pompous ***.
Perhaps you're confusing me and other "Wannabe Experts®" with the individual in the video, who wants very desperately to know what he's doing / talking about etc. But, you know, doesn't.

Funny your embarrassing Youtube link - the one where you got to play the genius mechanic who figured out everything in spite of us, while mocking us as "Wannabe Experts®," - has suddenly been removed, now how and why did that happen, friend? Were you concerned it might reveal something inconvenient?

Welcome to the NAM board. Okay, not really.






 
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Old Jan 11, 2023 | 06:21 AM
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Unfortunately, I don't have an editing team...I'm a politician and have to make sure the hot mic moment doesn't leak out to the masses.
 
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Old Jan 11, 2023 | 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by miniwages
YEs, I ordered a set of king bearings standard size, since that was in there originally (been rebuilt about 100k ago) Crank looks perfect. Ordering ARP bolts and a new oil pump too. The top end is great, not sure why the bearings failed...suspecting weak oil pump internals.
Glad you got it sorted. As the one at the car it is up to you to correctly identify the problem, which you did.

My 2nd hand experience regarding failed bearings is lack of proper servicing -- in this context read oil/filter servicing -- causes far more bearing problems than a weak oil pump. Certainly replacing the oil pump while you are there makes sense though.
 
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Old Jan 11, 2023 | 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RockC
Glad you got it sorted. As the one at the car it is up to you to correctly identify the problem, which you did.

My 2nd hand experience regarding failed bearings is lack of proper servicing -- in this context read oil/filter servicing -- causes far more bearing problems than a weak oil pump. Certainly replacing the oil pump while you are there makes sense though.
thanks will do, I think I'll pull the oil filter housing and make sure the bypass and overflow are working. I may have to go to an oversize bearing, need a micrometer...if there is any chance of a knock afterwards, I'll probably park it and pull the motor and remove the crank to have grounded for oversize bearings...
 
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