Since this is such a civil conversation (thanks, all!) is there any advantage to replacing stock springs if staying at the stock height? A progressive or something?

I'll have the R50 suspension completely apart soon- Koni reds, bushings, brakes, tie rod ends, etc.

Springs? I want to stay stock and keep the travel I have available.

 

Perhaps this example may help you. We have a 2nd gen Cooper, but I think the same applies to both R50 and R56. Our Cooper has the standard suspension and I want to retain factory travel too. I have a set of factory sport suspension springs waiting in the garage. I plan to match them with Bilstein Sport aka B6, JCW sway bars f+r, IE fixed camber plates and stiffer LCA bushings.
I do avoid progressive rate springs by conviction, linear rate is what you want for a predictable cornering on real world pavement, of course along with appropriate dampers/struts/shocks (Koni, Bilstein).
There's nothing wrong with factory springs as they're linear and made in several spring rates, but keep in mind there are dozens of spring part numbers since BMW fitted several spring rates (and different length) depending on engine (R50, R53), gearbox (manual, auto) and equipment (sunroof, sound system, leather seats etc.). You'll have a hard time finding the right or ideal parts numbers, but it'd be quite easy if you find a similarly specced Mini on a dealer lot with factory sport suspension (plus) and use that VIN for your order.

 

The quick answer - No.

I think you will be hard pressed to find an aftermarket spring that will give you the same height as the stock springs. You could replace the MINI springs you have with newer (less miles) if yours have a lot of miles on them. If you are looking for a softer, more compliant ride, the base R50 springs are the softest MINI offers (I don’t remember if you said whether you had an optional suspension or not). I have read that some people believe the MINI springs are progressive (not sure on the facts on that, though).

IMHO one of the best changes anyone can make to improve the ride of their MINI is to put better shocks in it. I would put my money on the Koni Reds being a very worthwhile improvement.

Springs, keep yours, unless you have a lot of miles on them (100k +), can tell that they are sagging (measure ride height - post here measure from center of wheel) and/or they have had a lot of abuse (eg: potholes bottoming the car out a lot). It won’t hurt anything to change them, except for the cost, but note you may not notice a difference unless there is an obvious problem with the ones you have.

 

I have the full John Cooper works suspension in my car.... the expensive one from the factory.... The PO replaced the struts about 9k-miles ago, with all new P-Flex bushings, ball joints and Shock mounts when the clutch was done
It is a decent suspension IMO... But not as nice as the fresh FSD equipped car I was able to drive back-to-back with mine... Identical to mine... but his tires were some House brand from Americas tire whereas mine are Bridgestone S001's... his has the factory 17mm bar that came with the car.. though he has the Alta 22 to swap in there.

The parts I have on the shelf so far are the Koni FSD's, WMW Hollow Rear sway bar....

AND... New stock 2006-Cooper S springs...
Fr: 31-33-6-759-388
Rr: 33-53-6-763-283

Which were the part numbers that Koni gave me as the springs they tuned the shocks with.
IMO, important to have the rates match the very specific speed and position sensitive FSD design.

I've been in some nice cars with nice suspension packages.. but for me, on the street with real-world obstacles... I want a compliant suspension to keep the car performing top notch and have all the available travel... Cant get grip if the tire leaves the pavement... or can't return fast enough...

I'll put the JCW stuff on the shelf and "mothball" it in case these R53-LCI JCW cars get pricey enough for me to want to sell it.

Looking forward to a great handling car.

BTW... my other Minis have the Ohilins, AST, ST and the Sports + suspensions on them.... they are all nice but the AST and the ST leave a lot to be desired on the street when there are dips, stutters, potholes, stones etc in my path... But on Ideal summer twisties... with good sticky tires... they really shine. The Ohlins/Vorschlag/Hotchkiss setup on my R56 is a really nice street setup when run at their recommended ride-height settings without much compromise at all on the street... but at north of $3k installed/adjusted....it should be...😜









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Aren’t almost all factory/beehive springs progressive?

mountainhorse, which ST’s do you have and what damping setting do you run them at?

I’m running XTA’s at the mid setting (8?) and they seem pretty good, except for the occasional big or multiple dips where they get slightly bouncy. I might try making them a little firmer when I have the rears off for the R56 trailing arm mod. One thing that.is strange about them since new was the front adjustment is not indexed, but the rear clicks for every setting.

If adjustable, are both the front and rear indexed on your ST’s?

 

I have the ST XA's.... They are adjustable front and rear.... both have "clickers" on them that you can feel the detents.

Don't get me wrong... good suspension...real good in-fact... I just feel they are setup and designed with more 'ideal' road surfaces in mind.

My point above about lowered MINI's on the street is not about "ideal" or "optimal" handling in ideal or optimal conditions... but rather, what do I want to deal with on normal roads. They have so little precious travel to start with.

I'm focusing on ASB's to control my body roll rather than the springs... hence, my choosing the FSD's.... and the truly systematic way Koni went about getting this Special-Active damper system to work so well 'all around'.

I used to think that the FSD's were just a good quality 'plush' street damper.... but in reality, I'm finding they are a true performance oriented system that MINI just couldn't (or others) afford to put on a car and still make their 'margins' for profit. (even with that ridiculous price tag on the JCW-red upgrade kit).

Can a stiffer sprung, lower slung setup with really firm valving handle faster through a smooth curve... probably.... but throw some stutters or holes on that curve, and I'd bet the FSD's shine.... thats what my research and testing has shown me so far.... And having a smooth ride with less NVH in a car that has NVH 'built in' is also important to me.

I'm even going to put these on with a Journey 2" lift kit for the country road driving.... That will be in the late fall... with the Blizzak WS90 185/55R16's.... using the Hotchkiss lower rear links and the SPC urethane mounted front camber plates... to bring it all into alignment. I'll have plenty of tire clearance ..


Rock on... Motor Hard... and have fun.
Everybody has a different way to get to their destination ... and that makes the world go round.

Skinny tires RULE....
At least I'll have clearance... HaHa









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All stock springs I've ever seen are linear rate only. Generally everything BMW, Mini, VW, Audi at least, however the urethane bump stops make for some 'progressiveness' at the end of travel. While Porsche use linear springs too I've heard one or two 911 turbo models (996?) came with progressive springs on rear. In very most applications there's simply no advantage in using progressive rate springs, but there are hard to denie downsides - predictability, noise and corrosion.

 

So I committed today. ST XTA, It seems the best option $$wise.

 

Have you had enough time with the XTA's to form a solid opinion of how they perform?

I'm seriously considering them because as you say the bang-for-buck is on point.

Do the plastic perches seem stout enough? Is setting the ride height an easy breeze or or time consuming hassle?

Are the torx bolts on the adjustable tophats good quality? I'm worried about stripping them because of how tight clearances are in the turret opening. Most all other coilovers use allen bolts where you can use a ball-end wrench which seems like it would help prevent possible stripping.

I'm a grumpy old man and favor reliable simplicity in most cases. When I first got my car it had 99k miles and the factory shocks were blown, so I replaced them with Bilstein B6, added IE fixed plates, and the previous owner had installed Vogtland lowering springs which I kept but I think they might be tired, I don't even know the rates on them.

I was a bit shocked at the cost of the B6's, but they've served me well and I like how they ride.

However, I'd like a bit more adjustability in both camber and ride height. The IE fixed plates gave me -1.7 on the right and -1.3 on the left according to my last alignment, since then while doing some work I hammered down a bit more on the left tower top but haven't had an alignment since, I was hoping to give it a few degrees more.

Anyway, at this point I'm ready to dive in for coilovers and it's either gonna be the XTA's or Fortune Auto 500.

I'm sort of leaning toward the FA because if a damper ever needs refurb they're at least pretty close to me up in Virginia.

They assemble their stuff from Taiwanese components which gave me some concern but from everything I've read in various forums they seem to be highly regarded.

Anyone here have any experience with Fortune Auto?

I would opt for the Hyperco spring upgrade so they'd cost more than the XTA,
just don't want to regret my decision!

https://www.shop-fortune-auto.com/co...ries-coilovers

Default spring rates are 6k/6k which seems okay to me so I'd just go with that.

Any input on those spring rates for a daily driver?

Thanks for any advice or opinions!

 

I’m pleased with my purchase. I have put about 2k mi on my car since the suspension rebuild, 350 miles or so being a 12 hour day crisscrossing the blue ridge on my way back from my father’s house near Anderson SC back home to Richmond. I didn’t feel too beat up that day. It can get a bit jarring on higher speed whoops on interstate frost heaves. But it is an amazingly capable at cornering, and with bumps in the corners the tires never seem to lose contact or skitter as I would expect them to. I haven’t messed with the adjusters at all, so I could possibly take some of that harshness out, but under most conditions I’m satisfied with the ride. I wasn’t expecting a Cadillac.

I like the Torx bolts, they are actually a better interface than allens, and I’m pretty sure you can get the driver in a ball end. I just unbolted the top mount, loosened the 2 bolts that are shrouded, reinstalled top mount, made my adjustments and when I was satisfied I dropped the top mount again and tightened all 4. A little more work, but I’m not planning on moving it regularly. Plastic adjusters seem fine. If they have German approval I’m sure they will be serviceable for years to come.

Fortune Auto is on the way out to my daughter’s house (Powhatan Va.). I stopped and talked to them about a set, and I have no doubt that they would make a nice product, especially with the upgraded springs. But it was another $400+ depending on options. If I was going to spend that money I’d probably do the Greene’s. And I think it was overkill for what I needed. I don’t think I needed coilovers, but I know I do get funny about how a car sits. I have multiple lowered vehicles, and can obsess over ride height. And the STs weren’t that different $$wise than a spring/shock package with Ireland fixed top mounts.

My understanding is that the STs are serviceable in the USA with bilstein parts.

 

Awesome, many thanks for taking the time to share your review.

 

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Was just looking at ST's website and noticed that they offer custom spring rates too:



Standard is 80N/mm front and 40N/mm rear,
which equates to 8k and 4k, is that correct?

 

Reading this entire thread topic was worthwhile while considering how best to tame ride harshness on the track-prepped 2006 R53-S I bought 2+ wks ago (related thread topic here ). With just 4k total miles of which < 3k being after modded when new 15 years ago, no need to refresh the suspension components but instead, taming down the unknown brand track-spec springs but kept in combo with the Koni Yellows installed at that time. Yesterday, my buddy and I put roughly 150 mountain highway miles on it (AZ 260 east of town). During that, irregular paved surfaces in combo with those super stiff springs set off the low pressure warning indicator lamp. We pulled over and checked pressures which were all fine. Got home, searched related NAM threads and found true cause as well as how to reset the system to clear the warning lamp.

OK then, I want to retain the Konis, adj lower rear control arms and chassis bracing but swap to softer spring rates. At this point, WMW's TSW springs seem best known option for my objectives, however those are out of stock for undetermined time until their supplier makes more. Any others with similar linear spring rates I should consider? Also, for street/highway (no tracking) purposes, what static ride height should be targeted and what fixed reference point for measuring is most commonly used? I just now measured mine at bottom of plastic wheel moldings on center of wheel hubs and got; LF 611mm / RF 622mm / LR 631mm / RR 611mm (all without driver/passenger). TIA...

 

I have no idea on ride height. When I set up my car on the coilovers I set it up so that a 4x4 slides under the front frame rail where it meets the floorboard. Its pretty low, but I'm also running 15" wheels which lower it a little more because of shorter tire. Much time was spent before that ensuring that all the adjuster rings were at the same height, and even rotations were done to lift body evenly. I didn't have corner balance scales.I have done the alignment with string and angle finder, and a plate I made that sits on wheel for camber...(I'm a machinist, I measure and align a lot of things but this is my first time doing this on a car to this level with the amount of adjustment provided) and am planning on getting it checked out soon but its not eating tires or handling weird at all.

Probably your best option for a spring swap is Swift. They don't lower that much, but seem to be the choice for handling and comfort. My non coilover setup was going to be Koni yellows and Swifts, but the STs cost about the same, so I went this route. If I had your car already setup the way it is the Swift would be my choice.

 

Bringing this back a month+ later, with link to my separate thread WRT consideration of JCW "red" springs in combo with Koni Yellows: JCW Sport (red) springs vs alternatives for my modded MCS

Lots of good comments and suggestions posted in this thread spanning 4 months of this year which might help me choose best option vs TSW linear rate springs from WMW seemingly not available anytime soon. In my linked topic, it was suggested JCW reds are progressive and Swift Spec-R are linear rate, however it's my opposite perspective having fully read this and other related forum topics. As a refresher, my MCS has Koni Yellows installed when new but still < 4k total miles. Since those Konis are not the FSD version, seems I could continue using lowering springs thus JCW reds appeal as perhaps a good compromise to match the other performance suspension mods, however I want to proceed conservatively. The reds are still available to order from MINI dealers (prox $550 + shipping) as are black MCS Sport springs at about same cost for even more ground clearance and ride compliance. Comments from those having "been there / done that"? Although built by the original owner for tracking, this car has never seen that action nor will it during my time. How about it @mountainhorse and @Oldboy Speedwell since you've both posted on this thread already and are familiar with specs on my car? TIA...

 

The Red JCW Sport springs are stiffer* than the base sport springs and lower the car by 10 mm (~3/8”). Both are stiffer than the S suspension springs.

*I don’t have exact spring rates for either...

It isn’t clear, though, what your objectives are. Are you looking to lower your car and stiffen the ride? Or something else.

 

^^^ Sorry, my objectives were stated elsewhere but should have been summarized for clarity in my question. In brief as is outlined in my related thread topic on my MCS bought 7 wks ago, it was highly modded for tracking when new with suspension and engine performance upgrades. The Eibach springs used back then are especially harsh (with 205/40R17 DOT comp tires) for streets and highway driving, thus my objective being for a more practical spring rate and drop from those Eibach compared to OEM S-spec. With that said, JCW reds seem a good compromise as outlined in this technical bulletin issued when the JCW Sport Suspension Kit was announced (noting MINI stated in that bulleting only 10mm drop):
SUBJECT: JOHN COOPER WORKS SPORT SUSPENSION

OEM MCS spec springs correct for my VIN are also being considered with which the other suspension mods adding to overall handling improvement vs OEM stock, while restoring ride height and compliance not punishing for non-tracking utilization. The JCW red springs still available from authorized MINI parts dealers should work well for the weight of my car, i.e., mid level (2nd stiffest) fronts of 3 offered and first level (least stiff) rears of 3 offered seemingly well matched to my slicktop with minimal weight-adding options.

 

In a lot of cases ride harshness is a result of the shocks, not the springs. In another thread you mention that the car has Koni Yellows in it. These are adjustable. Have you set them to the softest setting to see if that removes the harshness? The rear shocks would need to be removed to change their setting. When I switched from the MINI shocks to the B8s on my R56 ride was greatly improved; no change in springs.

That other thread also mentions that the car has 205/40 series tires on it... These need to go... 215/45 would be a great choice. The BMW/MINI speedo “error” is an adder of 3 mph to the mph display only. The 215 vs 205 difference in diameter is minor, so the effect on the speedo will be minimal.

 

^^^ Understood on Koni Yellows being adjustable, although hadn't determined how until early morning looking online. I haven't owned Koni shocks for a long time and never Yellows. I checked my front adjusters which are buried beneath the adjustable camber plates, thus not easily accessible without risk of altering alignment settings. Maybe mark current the positions, remove those then adjust the shocks and reinstall. I left town this morning for a few weeks but took a picture showing that. No Koni adjuster ***** but doubtful the **** shank would clear enough to engage the adjustment shaft flats. If those shaft flats are cross-drilled, might be able to rotate with a hook tool. If not, I'll try long needle nose pliers when I get back home.

Also agreed on tire replacement with the taller 205/45 or 215/45 for fewer revs/mile plus increased ground clearance needed with softer shock settings. I've already viewing the spec dimensions and done the easy math. In the meantime, I'm attempting to confirm availability of those JCW reds and will likely place an order, depending...

 

Update: I got confirmation from my chosen BMW MINI dealer's online parts store this morning that (2) of the original (6) JCW "red" Sport Suspension coil springs are available to order with inventory on both front spring P/N 31-33-6-768-415 and rear spring P/N 33-53-6-768-417. I placed my order just now, subject to delivery in 3-5 weeks.

 

Are those the sunroof or the non sunroof springs?

 

^^^ As outlined in BMW MINI's Nov 2004 press release (linked in post # 92), dealers were suppose to use a look-up table back then to confirm best spring P/N choices based-on factory options and corresponding weight. Now, there are only the (2) spring P/Ns available as in post # 95. Since my car is a slicktop with few options (just chrono and LSD), these springs should work quite well. By that, 2nd stiffest of 3 P/Ns for the front and least stiff of the 3 P/Ns for the rear. Mine has engine performance mods which added a bit of weight but nothing of significance in the rear. So then, I'd call these the "non-sunroof" versions but unsure how much difference that might make in any case.