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From all that I’ve read, the FSD’s or the renamed Special Actives will fail prematurely if used with lowering springs so the Bilstein B8’s might be the way to go.
Thanks. So are the Bilstein B8's equivalent to the yellow "Bilstein Sport" shocks recommended above and linked here?
I think they’re an alternative to the FSD’s. I don’t know what affect lowering springs will have on B8’s hence the “might be the better way to go”, but according to Koni, the FSD’s weren’t designed for lowered cars.
Re-reading the earlier posts in this thread, it looks like the Bilstein sports are a closer match to your original JCW struts than the B8’s.
I think they’re an alternative to the FSD’s. I don’t know what affect lowering springs will have on B8’s hence the “might be the better way to go”, but according to Koni, the FSD’s weren’t designed for lowered cars.
Re-reading the earlier posts in this thread, it looks like the Bilstein sports are a closer match to your original JCW struts than the B8’s.
According to Bilstein:
The B8 is shorter than the B6. The Bilstein B6 are a performance damper. They have the same overall length as the original equipment (OE) damper and are perfect if you want a sporty ride without lowering your car. ... So if you are think about fitting lowering springs Bilstein B8 is the best option.
They were formerly named HD and Sport in the US. In Europe and Asia they've ever only been marketed als B6 and B8.
To my very best knowledge both B6 and B8 share the exact same valving. This is at least true for very most applications.
The only difference ist the lengh of the piston rod, or even more precise, the travel it makes moving out (rebound). They
simply put a spacer inside of the damper to achive this, while the rod remains actually the same. I'm aware this is contrary
to some forum and vendor talk.
Personally I would (and plan to) go for Bilsteins, but if you like the JCW suspension as is and the dampers/shocks are
still available, why not get them again? The JCW retrofit suspension kit got excellent reviews when it was released and
I am under the impression all the critics have never driven a Mini fitted with the JCW suspension kit. So take their words
with a grain of salt (and if you want mine too).
Just to add to the confusion, the base JCW suspension could be ordered on the Cooper and Cooper S. The option was called “Sport Suspension” and it was a $500 option. If yours was listed as an option, then that was what you have. The springs were black and were of standard height.
The “Sport Suspension” in the Mk1 MINI was not really a JCW stock suspension. It was an option for all the hardtops and most drivers despised the harsher ride. While it could be ordered that way, the majority of the R53's that rolled off the line were "pre-spec'd" with that option at the dealer level.
In the later years for Mk2 MINI, the term "Sport Suspension” referred to a JCW suspension.
My R53 originally came to the states with the Mk1 "Sport Suspension” before I upgraded at 44K miles to the JCW.
Thanks again for all the input. I'm currently leaning towards replacing these JCW struts with OEM parts. Main reason is that I would like to appreciate the JCW suspension with new components, as opposed to the tired units I inherited. That would give me a good baseline. Brand new JCW shocks are about the same price as Bilstein Sports and I can't imagine there is a very big remaining supply of JCW units, so I may as well try them now...
I have an '03 R53 with "Sport Suspension Plus" and a '04 R50.
Considering an aftermarket 19mm rear sway bar for the R53- will the R50 benefit from receiving the old bar from the R53?
I'd consider fitting a R56 JCW 18.5 mm rear sway bar instead. It's quite cheap, fits all R50-R53 too and should complement both your R50 and R53 nicely.
It's also a worthwhile option for the OP btw..
Unfortunately I don't know if the corresponding R56 JCW front sway bar (24 mm) does fit R50/R53 models, however install is far from being a breeze, so most won't take it into consideration anyway.
Last edited by 930 Engineering; Mar 15, 2021 at 03:50 PM.
A 25.5 mm rear bar is way overdone on a R50 base Cooper with stock suspension driven on public roads. 'FakeName' did ask about swapping his R53 bar onto his R50 (as a no-cost option), not about prepping his Cooper for track.
A 25.5 mm rear bar is way overdone on a R50 base Cooper with stock suspension driven on public roads. 'FakeName' did ask about swapping his R53 bar onto his R50 (as a no-cost option), not about prepping his Cooper for track.
And you know this how R56 owner with 37 posts ?
He won't gain any appreciable performance from doing that swap. Definate waste of time and money.
And a "used" bar will have two reverse collets/gaps formed where the rubber bushings hold the bar. Happens when all the road dirt and grit gets between the bar and the bushing working on the bar like sandpaper. Any gap there will efffectively make the bar useless.
And there is no such thing with a MINI about being over done with handling mods....unless your a girly man. In a MINI it's ALL and always about handling due to it being somewhat underpowered for it's class.
The 25.5mm bar is excellent choice for on both track and street. Add powerflex urethane sway bar bushings for front bar and an R50 will turn circles around any other.
... And there is no such thing with a MINI about being over done with handling mods....unless your a girly man. In a MINI it's ALL and always about handling due to it being somewhat underpowered for it's class.
The 25.5mm bar is excellent choice for on both track and street. Add powerflex urethane sway bar bushings for front bar and an R50 will turn circles around any other.
Ok, name calling is completely unnecessary. There is nothing “girly” about drive in a car that is prone to stuffing itself into a guardrail because someone thinks it is necessary to put parts into a car that will make it swap ends at the most inopportune time. And, yes, that is what a 25.5mm RSB will do to a R50 and any other MINI.
There is such a thing as a MINI being over done with handling mods. A 25.5mm hollow bar, by itself, is way overdone for a MINI, especially for a R50. The springs, shocks and front swaybar are way to soft to be balanced with that size RSB.
”Fixing” the understeer in a MINI with parts is like a golfer with a slice going to the golf pro and saying he/she needs a new set of clubs. Learn to swing the clubs properly, first. Then buy new clubs. Same with MINIs.
I think the OP made a wise choice with oem shocks, I had FSDs on my factory r53 JCW and I HATED them, they are terrible and bottom out way too easy with a crashing sound that is probably pounding the hell out of my shocktowers and we all know how bad those are on a r53
My car has factory jcw red springs too, slightly stiffer than the regular S got
He won't gain any appreciable performance from doing that swap. Definate waste of time and money.
I remember I suggested to not use the R53 bar, but the JCW instead.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
And a "used" bar will have two reverse collets/gaps formed where the rubber bushings hold the bar. Happens when all the road dirt and grit gets between the bar and the bushing working on the bar like sandpaper. Any gap there will efffectively make the bar useless.
lol
You seem to better know the condition of his sway bar than 'FakeName' himself. Nothing to be said against checking it for excessive wear.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
And there is no such thing with a MINI about being over done with sensible handling mods....
I fixed that for you.
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher
The 25.5mm bar is excellent choice for on both track and street. Add powerflex urethane sway bar bushings for front bar and an R50 will turn circles around any other.
Ok, name calling is completely unnecessary. There is nothing “girly” about drive in a car that is prone to stuffing itself into a guardrail because someone thinks it is necessary to put parts into a car that will make it swap ends at the most inopportune time. And, yes, that is what a 25.5mm RSB will do to a R50 and any other MINI.
There is such a thing as a MINI being over done with handling mods. A 25.5mm hollow bar, by itself, is way overdone for a MINI, especially for a R50. The springs, shocks and front swaybar are way to soft to be balanced with that size RSB.
”Fixing” the understeer in a MINI with parts is like a golfer with a slice going to the golf pro and saying he/she needs a new set of clubs. Learn to swing the clubs properly, first. Then buy new clubs. Same with MINIs.
Every good man knows his limitations, apparently we found your's.....
....."And there is no such thing with a MINI about being over done with handling mods....unless your a girly man."
Originally Posted by Eddie07S
Ok, name calling is completely unnecessary.
Another limitaiton appears to be the grasp of the english language.
Name calling....I did not....
There is a big difference between; Your, and You're....Your being a determiner for "group of people" and You're a contraction of; "you are".
And this was such a nice thread. It has some really good info, and some I have already seen. But it seems to have mostly knowledgeable people so now that y’all are focused....
I'm at the point that I need to order suspension, and that requires a decision be made. I have already obtained a set of R56 trailing arms that will be going on at the time I do the suspension.
My car came with a nice set of 15x7.5, and on stock springs it looks like a 4x4.
Part of me thinks to go all in with a set of BC, or Greene/BC coilovers, or KW v1 or v2... I have had tons of lowered vehicles, including drag motorcycles. I like that aesthetic.
But the reasonable side says Koni or Bilstein sport, with swift springs. But once I add a set of IE top mounts, I’m almost to the cost of the Greene’s.
Another option is the bilstein kit with the Eibach springs included. Again adding in the IE top mounts.cost effectiveness wise this is the best solution. I can’t imagine that this setup is that bad considering it’s engineered as a matched set, and has significant drop. But I see no information/feedback about it
all of these would include urethane control arm mounts, probably a 19 mm rear sway bar because I’m a *****, and adjustable rear lower links.
it’s pretty unlikely I’ll do a track day. I do track days on motorcycles.
It appears I spoke to soon, when I declared the R53 JCW struts and shocks are still available. It seems the front struts can still be bought, but not the rear shocks (for a non-GP R53). The part number I have for JCW rear shocks on a non-GP like mine is: 33526768412. The JCW rear shock which is still available is for a GP: 33506776199.
What is the difference between the 2 different rear shocks? Is it just the lower bushing? The GP version appears to have a conical one, compared to non-GP.
I don't know much about the GP, but I suppose it's probably possible. People run a machined adapter for that lower bushing to go the other direction when they install R56 aluminum trailing arms on the R53. I didn't realize that the R53 GP used that style trailing arm.
The GP had aluminum trailing arms, the precursor to the R56 trailing arms. I suppose you “could” cut that off to use with R53 steel arms, but I’d worry about getting it flat enough for a good seat on the arm. I would seriously just get the Bilstein B8 sport shocks and be done.
And this was such a nice thread. It has some really good info, and some I have already seen. But it seems to have mostly knowledgeable people so now that y’all are focused....
I'm at the point that I need to order suspension, and that requires a decision be made. I have already obtained a set of R56 trailing arms that will be going on at the time I do the suspension.
My car came with a nice set of 15x7.5, and on stock springs it looks like a 4x4.
Part of me thinks to go all in with a set of BC, or Greene/BC coilovers, or KW v1 or v2... I have had tons of lowered vehicles, including drag motorcycles. I like that aesthetic.
But the reasonable side says Koni or Bilstein sport, with swift springs. But once I add a set of IE top mounts, I’m almost to the cost of the Greene’s.
Another option is the bilstein kit with the Eibach springs included. Again adding in the IE top mounts.cost effectiveness wise this is the best solution. I can’t imagine that this setup is that bad considering it’s engineered as a matched set, and has significant drop. But I see no information/feedback about it
all of these would include urethane control arm mounts, probably a 19 mm rear sway bar because I’m a *****, and adjustable rear lower links.
it’s pretty unlikely I’ll do a track day. I do track days on motorcycles.
I am a fan of the Bilstein B8s I have and if I was to gamble on a setup/shocks I was not sure of, I would go with the Bilstein name.
bilstein kit with the Eibach springs included.
or the
Bilstein sport, with swift springs
would be a good choices. KW coilovers generally get good reviews. No personal experience with them. I know people who have BC, but that was only for the track. Not sure how they would do on the road. The others, don’t know.
Originally Posted by Ferrino
It appears I spoke to soon, when I declared the R53 JCW struts and shocks are still available. It seems the front struts can still be bought, but not the rear shocks (for a non-GP R53). The part number I have for JCW rear shocks on a non-GP like mine is: 33526768412. The JCW rear shock which is still available is for a GP: 33506776199.
What is the difference between the 2 different rear shocks? Is it just the lower bushing? The GP version appears to have a conical one, compared to non-GP.
I have seen posts where people installed these (the R56 style shocks) on older R53s just installing it backwards. That is, by having the conical part on bolt head side instead of having it on the trailing arm side. You may need to buy a longer bolt to do that, though.
But, given the experience I had when I switched from my MINI shocks to the Bilstein B8s, I would say - Go with the B8s all the way around... Or the B6... Bilstein makes a much better shock.
