Hello all,

I have been doing quite a bit of research on cams as i may be planning one in the near future depending on my supercharger pulley. I am a bit confused and overwhelmed with the options .

So i know that by changing the supercharger pulley to a 17% will move the powerband down to lower rpms so the supercharger will spin faster at lower rpms.

upon reviewing the cam specs for example ... newman ph2 which is a 250/400 power band of 2000-6000 rpm
newman ph 3/4 which is 272/400 power band of 3000-7000 rpm

i notice that the power band ( in the above 2 cams) can also move . So my question is with a supercharger reduction pulley is there a way to pair a cam properly based on the intake/ exhaust numbers or powerband? for example would a ph2 cam work best with the 17% since both powerbands are lower down in rpm and since we cant spin the supercharger up high rpms anyway?

sorry for the question if it is silly but i am trying to learn and cant seem to find the answer

 

Last month I replaced my supercharger and had a 17% pulley installed from the rebuilder (Detroit Tuned). My car is a daily driver and I also installed colder spark plugs at the same time.

I always told people that with my stock supercharger, there was no point in spinning the engine to redline because the car seemed to "run out of breath" at about 6000 RPM. With this 17% pulley, the power band seems from 3000 rpm and pulling much harder all the way to redline (6700 rpm). It's even much louder (stock intake and exhaust). The car is a laughing riot to flog now.

There's probably a new cam (and rockers) in my future, so I'll be watching this thread as well.

 

IMO, power and torque in the low and mid range would be a lot more useable in everyday driving. Unless you track the car a lot, or are chasing HP numbers, I would go with the smallest pulley and mild cam combo that can be safely run on the gas available in your area.

The two cams I’ve been considering are the ph2 or a CatCam 461.

 

I wish I could replace or rebuild my charger as i have the pre- facelift, but a service will have to do (unless gears are busted) . U are correct i feel more of the pull on stock from about 3500 to 6200 or so and thats why i would like to push that power band a little lower on the rpm .
cant wait to do the 17 % or maybe crank and sup pulley depending on the info. I won't be pushing to redline anyhow as the most i usually change gears when pushing is at around 6k. Will just have to keep my eyes and happy led foot to about 5k with the 17%.

 

You are correct RB-MINI, i would rather have that power curve and torque a little lower down thats why the supercharger reduced pulley. Although my pre - facelift and shorter gear ratio may play a role.into it . I wonder if I will like the shifting earlier on the 1st and second as I find i have to shift gears quite early.

Seems that my car on first and second are pushing the engine at about 3500 and not moving too much more so i am having to shift quite early. Took it to mechanic to check for clutch slippage but he sais clutch check is fine.
not sure what to make of it.

As for cam yes would def like to put one in after I feel qhat the car feels like with pulley selection. I am also eyeballing the atcam 461, newman ph2 or the ewo2 I saw on another site, but thats still up in the air. I think a cam like the 469 will be too much for what I want.

My dilemma is trying to figure out if I should put a mild cam that moves the power band down lower with a supercharger pulley that already moved the power band down lower ( 17%) or balance it out with a cam that keeps.it more mid to high .
the only thing I see with the second scenario is that it won't work well for me as I have a standard head and ts not like I can push the rpms too far up based on the supercharger pulley already driving the supercharger to its limit.

 

I'm running a ns1 cam BUT I have a tpr2 head .. BUT I love the cam , I didn't feel much if any low end power loss and its not so choppy that it causes a crap idle or anything
and I'm running a 17% pulley too

 

The NS1 is considered a “street” cam so it shouldn’t have a low end loss or idle issue, and another cam to consider with the ph2 and 461.

 

Has anyone done a before/after dyno session after a cam swap to see what kind of gains you are actually getting? From everything I've read over the years, unless you have a BVH........a cam swap really doesn't get you much at all, except maybe on the very top of the RPM range. Just curios.....

 

While I didn't do back to back with my different Cams over the years, I can confirm some of this.
The power increase from any specific Cam is variable depending on your Head, a BVH will net you more power -vs- the same Cam with a stock head. The BVH simply let's the Cam work to its potential.

That being said, power increases (Esp with a stock or JCW head) are actually minor, the big difference is where the power is made in the RPM range, so if you want to change your Cam, choose the one for your driving habits and style. (Low to Mid for stop light and canyon running, mid to high for track use)

 

ph2 is a big bump in power on a stock head, but make sure you get injectors and a tune, all 3 need to be done at the same time. ph2 was almost as big a jump in power as moving to a 17% for me

ph3/4 if you had a bvh, also harder to tune on stock ecu

 

Adrian Nastase did a great job with mine and I have the RMW Grand Am Cam AKA the P3/4 cam. I have power throughout. My only complaint is it is low on power at cold start but, I blame that on my forged internals. I have to plan ahead to let it warm for a couple minutes before she wants to go...but when it does! 😀😃🙂🙃😊

 

Newman quote the powerband asking torque but the normal standard is the powerband being from the moment of peak torque to the moment of peak power. So don't think you'll be down on power up top, remember the GP pulls its peak power around 7100rpm and has a 7168rpm. Pretty much any of these street cams won't rob you of top end power, like the Newman 1.5 I've been running for a few years now will still happily ping my rev limiter of 7200rpm and still climb in BHP. It can idle smoothly as low as 600rpm and can make power before the charger reaches efficiency range, generally punching on torque at 3250-3500 with a 15% pulley and its very very perfect for country roads. Newman 2 is very similar to be honest but slightly retarded, so similar curve just pushed a few hundred rpm upwards. Won't produce as much idle efficiency or power before charger efficiency is reached but as soon as charger efficiency is reached she will sing and hold a little more. Generally for a fast road car that may see country lanes with maybee the occasional track day its perfect for to make power with stock valvetrain. It can idle smoothly at 750rpm tuned will come on torque a little later around 3500-3750rpm but give more head room than Newman 1.5 up too when it's singing.

CatCam 461 can give the same situation as Newman 1.5 at idle and when under charger efficiency range, it doesnt however give as much of a punch when the torque comes in like Newman 1.5 but it does slightly give more gains up top than a Newman 1.5. Catcam 461 is like an all over linear gain, where the Newman 1.5 gives the same down low, bigger punch in mid but slightly less durable up top. Could say that the Catcam 461 will sort of give you gains which lay between the Newman 1.5 and 2 but isn't as agressive or punch but smooth.

CatCam 469 is a bit grotty under vaccum conditions (at idle and before charger efficiency is gained) will idle smoothly at 900rpm once tuned, will run lower power before charger efficiency range. However as soon as you're in charger efficient range it will trump the others mentioned so far and hold on past what the stock valvetrain can handle. This cam is more for the track guys who are also road legal. Torque tending to come in around 4000rpm.

Ofcourse this is based upon a 15% pulley car, with a stock or mildly ported head and breather mods etc. As we know valves and head work can make a difference here, ie if you go agressive with the actual head you're gonna slow down gas speeds at low rpms so you have to bear that in mind when selecting, like you do with the pulley size also. IE Its no good running a Newman 3/4 with a 17% pulley on stock valvetrain, because as the cam comes on the charger is already screaming hot past its efficiency range and you've also not got the capability to let the limiter loose too high. This cam is mighty strange I've found when tuning, it seems to ruin a lot of mid range not just low then only near redline it seems to show some activity. I don't like taking stock valvetrain past 7300 and to be honest this cam seems to want more, maybee it's fine on cars setup to be screamers ie big pulley, uprated valvetrain, rod bearings and so on. I couldn't say as customers don't have such setups so I've never tuned above 7300 ish. To be honest this cam isnt really an option unless you're maybee track only. I don't like it. If you're debating this cam, just get the Catcam 469 to be honest.
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Thanks for that great in detail reply " Warwick dean". Earlier on after starting the thread I settled and went with a newman ph2. Feom all the info gathered it seemed to be a good range for what I wanted. The 469 seemed to have quite a few issues from what I read online regarding idle and the " punch factor seemed to kick in further up the rev range .
I installed the newman ph2 with a 16% . Feels to me like I am down on some power after adding the cam. But can't say its the cam, it may be other issues..Had my original tune updated to accommodate the cam, but -stft figures are quite high ( -20 to -30) and timing advance is way up to around 50. Seems like it may be a timing issue . Tuner has recommended checking the timing in case it skipped a tooth . I remember when I put the timing belt tensioner and started car a loud clicking sound went on as the car operated. I shut off car and tried again . Upon checking the tensioner it was still retracted, so I reinstalled it with plunger open and car started good with no ticking sound. So I wonder if in that moment it may have skipped a tooth and screwed with my timing . Now will have to tear things apart to check correct timing. Argggg.

 

For sure under vaccum and low load conditions the engine will have less VE so negative fuel trims, in higher rpm and high load areas the opposite occurs but ofcourse with our cars using narrowband we don't always see this + trim reflected.

The proper way is to deploy the tensioner manually after cam install, you fit the tensioner retracted and then once fitted you push the tensioner rail towards the tensioner and then release. Whilst there check also the part numbers as its rare but sometimes have seen the wrong camshaft be sent out to customers by Newman. With the camshaft lock tool fitted all pistons should be level, is a BMW thing.

 

Thanks again Warwick,
Using inpa i get at idle ... high -stft qith left staying at 0
gas applied...... ( -20 to -30 stft1) and left stays at -1.8)

Thanks for the suggestion on the tensioner, feom what info I had gathered online I was under the impression that the plunger would open with pressure once car started.

The weird part in all this is that my timing advance is being at 50 which I think is quite high. I do wonder if it did skip a tooth as before I swapped camshaft it did feel pepper even in 5th gear

I am a newbie to all this and am learning , so this is a bit over my head .

The camshaft did come with a 250/400 label. but who knows if it was for the correct car

 

There's definitely some issues then, SFT should really stay within +/-10 on a decent calibration but sounds like you're hitting maximim tolerances. Fuel trims should freeze with enough gas applied (2/3 or more) also only LFT should remain active

Timing advance, you should only really hit those values during deceleration situations under strong vaccum. INPA is good but you can't watch enough things to get a good reference as you can with a good datalogger. x4code logger works with INPA cable and you can even input an external AFR amgauge signal into it to checkout high load fueling and you can see MAF parameter with it which is most important for tuning correctly. It's on eBay but I can get it for just £80.

The tensioner is spring ratchet it's not oil pressure which deploys it at all. Oil pressure dampens it and lubricates it is all.

Hmm usually the part number is engraved on the floating disc side that sits in the oil bath on the head.

 

Thanks for the reply,

Took the car put for a good run today and Unfortunately the stft1 ( using torque on phone) was still hitting -17 to -30 at 3000 rpm. When I hit gas it seems that the negative stft readings get higher negative readings. The timing advance seemed a little more normal at times , but I did see fluctuations from 8 to 30 at times.

Finally got a p0172 code ( system too rich ) after stomping on gas over 5000rpm on 5th gear. I guess on one loop the ecu stopped controlling the fuel trim so it ran quite rich . There is def lack of power from before installing the cam , which is disappointing.
Would a large vaccum leak at the green gasket cause these issues with a performance ?

as for the datalogger, yes It seems I will probably have to invest in it. I just bought an aem afr x guage to help with the fine tuning , but it seems I will need more . Just need to find the correct wire now to be able to connect from the guage to the datalogger. I wasn't aware it didn't tie into the obd2 reader when I purchased it .

I will try to check the cam head for any numbers if/when I remove the valve cover to check timing in the future . Hopefully they did not screw up on the cam as I really don't feel like doing that install again .

 

A large vacuum leak would show as positive fuel trim (adding fuel) to try to compensate for the unmetered air going through the engine.

Your negative fuel trims (reducing fuel) means the engine is running rich, just like the code you have indicates. You are either getting too much fuel or too little air in the combustion chamber.

 

Thanks ghostwrench,

that helps me narrow things down bit . I am trying to pinpoint what it could be . Had a mechanic take a " vague look " today and he is telling me it could be the camshaft or tune. Lol I told him the camshaft was new , he just looked at me .
The tuner was recommended on this forum and I doubt the issue would be from the tuning or software Unfortunately we don't have any good mini tuners that I know of here where I am unless ur on a standalone ecu.

Right now wondering if the fuel pump could also be the issue as I feel a rpm " pulsing or yo-yo" under load at about 2900 to 3600. When in idle and i rev the engine i do not get the pulse feel. Could a bad pump be causing the extra fuel to be pumped ? Wouldn't the fuel regulator control it?

 

I'm running an ns1 cam but a tpr2 head . I have no idle issues or any low end powerloss though I did head and cam at Sametime but the cam gave a knowtiveable lumpier stronger sounding idle..it pulled very well too through all gears and rpms. But again , I did head and cam so I can't confirm exactly how much it helps. Lol didn't realize I had posted on this awhile ago..derderder

 

I took valve cover off to try and see if I could get timing link on cam sprocket to line up, best pic I could get of the cam number , u were correct where it was marked. From what I can see it does say bmw 250/400