R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Fixed Exhaust manifold leak but LTFT still >20% and P2096 remains

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 3, 2021 | 01:05 PM
  #1  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Fixed Exhaust manifold leak but LTFT still >20% and P2096 remains

I’ve been chasing down a P2096. My scanner shows LTFT to be ~ +20% when idling but goes down to ~6% on the highway. Here’s what I’ve done so far:
1. Fuel pressure was low, reading ~40psi. I was having some cold start issues. Repair manual says S should be ~50psi and non-S 40. I replaced with a new fuel pump and cold start issue seems resolved. The old pump had no part number on it at all so I wonder if maybe a previous owner swapped in a cheap Chinese part that was made for a non-S?

2. cleaned injectors

3. Performed exhaust leak test and found huge leak at the manifold where the 4 collectors merge. Replaced with new part and confirmed that leak is gone.

With that, I am still reading LTFT of >20% when idling. What gives? Could it be I need to reset the fuel adaptations?
 
Reply
Old Jan 3, 2021 | 02:20 PM
  #2  
nd-photo.nl's Avatar
nd-photo.nl
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 313
From: The Netherlands
Resetting would by my first advice yes.

Is your bypass valve working ok?
 
Reply
Old Jan 3, 2021 | 02:31 PM
  #3  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by nd-photo.nl
Resetting would by my first advice yes.

Is your bypass valve working ok?
it should be working fine. I’m not having any driveability issues. Is there some connection between p2096 and the bypass valve?
 
Reply
Old Jan 4, 2021 | 03:22 AM
  #4  
nd-photo.nl's Avatar
nd-photo.nl
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 313
From: The Netherlands
The bypass valve has influence on fuel consumption
 
Reply
Old Jan 4, 2021 | 11:16 AM
  #5  
kaneguy's Avatar
kaneguy
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 8
From: Conyers, Ga.
What is the STFT (short term) reading? It takes some time for the ECU to calculate the the LTFT (Long Term).
 
Reply
Old Jan 4, 2021 | 09:23 PM
  #6  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by kaneguy
What is the STFT (short term) reading? It takes some time for the ECU to calculate the the LTFT (Long Term).
When idling, STFT ~6-10 % and LTFT >20%. When on the highway at steady speed, STFT ~0% and LTFT ~6%. The fact that the trim numbers improve when engine is revved or driving lead me to think it's some kind of exhaust leak.
 
Reply
Old Jan 4, 2021 | 09:37 PM
  #7  
A383Wing's Avatar
A383Wing
6th Gear
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 255
From what I have read, our cars are in open loop at idle... which means no fuel control

Bryan
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 07:36 AM
  #8  
nd-photo.nl's Avatar
nd-photo.nl
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 313
From: The Netherlands
Usually:
-Open loop at idle & WOT
-Closed loop at partial throttle/load
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 11:33 AM
  #9  
adriancl's Avatar
adriancl
4th Gear
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 334
Likes: 186
From: Romania
You may have a damaged catalyst, that why you have bad LFT and get P2096 fault code.
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 01:38 PM
  #10  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by adriancl
You may have a damaged catalyst, that why you have bad LFT and get P2096 fault code.
manifold was replaced due to the leak.
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 04:49 PM
  #11  
thgeary's Avatar
thgeary
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Not the same thing, but I chased down a p0171 for a year or so before I finally noticed that the previous owner had changed the routing for the bypass valve. They'd connected the bypass valve via a new pipe to a tee on the fuel pressure regulator line. I took that off and reconnected the bypass valve as it should be, and the code went away. The symptoms were crazy LTFT readings when under heavy load - accelerating up a long hill on the freeway, for example. My advice: check for clever previous owner mods and reverse them.
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 08:11 PM
  #12  
ghostwrench's Avatar
ghostwrench
4th Gear
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 452
Likes: 245
From: Phoenix, AZ
Reset fuel adaptations if you can otherwise the ECM/PCM or whatever Mini calls the engine control module will have to slowly adapt to the now repaired exhaust manifold that was likely supplying unmetered air for the O2's to pick up.

Once adaptations are reset, the ECM will operate from a base fuel map and adjust STFT/LTFT from the O2 readings which should then remain within specifications if the repair is complete and/or correct.
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 09:02 PM
  #13  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by thgeary
Not the same thing, but I chased down a p0171 for a year or so before I finally noticed that the previous owner had changed the routing for the bypass valve. They'd connected the bypass valve via a new pipe to a tee on the fuel pressure regulator line. I took that off and reconnected the bypass valve as it should be, and the code went away. The symptoms were crazy LTFT readings when under heavy load - accelerating up a long hill on the freeway, for example. My advice: check for clever previous owner mods and reverse them.
That’s good advice. I’ll take a look.
 
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2021 | 09:05 PM
  #14  
GonnaMini's Avatar
GonnaMini
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ghostwrench
Reset fuel adaptations if you can otherwise the ECM/PCM or whatever Mini calls the engine control module will have to slowly adapt to the now repaired exhaust manifold that was likely supplying unmetered air for the O2's to pick up.

Once adaptations are reset, the ECM will operate from a base fuel map and adjust STFT/LTFT from the O2 readings which should then remain within specifications if the repair is complete and/or correct.
how long does it take to slowly adapt? I have a Foxwell 510 but it doesn’t seem to have an option to reset fuel adaptations on the R53. I’ll try updating the software to see if they added that ability but I’m not holding my breath.
 
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2021 | 12:50 AM
  #15  
nd-photo.nl's Avatar
nd-photo.nl
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 313
From: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by thgeary
Not the same thing, but I chased down a p0171 for a year or so before I finally noticed that the previous owner had changed the routing for the bypass valve. They'd connected the bypass valve via a new pipe to a tee on the fuel pressure regulator line. I took that off and reconnected the bypass valve as it should be, and the code went away. The symptoms were crazy LTFT readings when under heavy load - accelerating up a long hill on the freeway, for example. My advice: check for clever previous owner mods and reverse them.
Also known as the "VGS" mod (vacuum gain system). I tried that myself, but reverted in the end. More info here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ystem-vgs.html


And you connect the new splitted line to the actuator of the bypass valve (and cap off the existing connection)

 
Reply
Old Dec 14, 2021 | 10:03 AM
  #16  
Soul Coughing's Avatar
Soul Coughing
5th Gear
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 157
From: Northern Jersey
Just want to give some insight for people who may be having a similar issue. My GP has been throwing a P2096 for a while now, and I've been slowly troubleshooting the issue. First was a broken exhaust header. I changed that, and while the long and short term fuel %'s decreased, they still were +. I used this site to troubleshoot as well: https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/s...equipment-news

I then started looking at the voltages on the O2 sensors and took a bit of a gamble, and replaced both front and rear O2 sensors with new NTK sensors. I also downloaded INPA and used the how-to's on this site to install them on my laptop. I was able to reset my fuel trim adaptations, and with the new o2 sensors, the car's MPG has improved from low 20's to high 20's and low 30's! The car hasn't thrown a code in the last 3 drives - it usually throws it after the second restart - and hopefully it will stay off. Not sure if its related, but I just started having a cold start issue - car starts, then bogs and misfires and then dies - second key on restart and the engine starts right away and is fine. I've already replaced the fuel filter last year, and the car runs fine after this. Anyway, I'll keep troubleshooting it, but at least so far, my P2096 hasn't come back! Hope this helps anyone!
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Akumazeto
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
17
Aug 26, 2019 10:52 AM
screwed36coupe
Stock Problems/Issues
1
Sep 26, 2013 11:09 AM
redboy23
JCW Garage
3
Sep 29, 2011 10:05 AM
Tanuki
Classic Mini Talk
19
May 31, 2011 04:36 PM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:22 PM.