R50/53 Reproduction Oil Bypass Valve Project
Hey all 50/52/53 owners here,
I am currently in progress (90%) done with a replacement/reproduction oil bypass valves. I know this is somewhat of a common problem, and the parts are unavailable unless you purchase the oil filter housing in completion (and hope that it includes it
). I have the model finished and the prototype is on the way. I plan on running my car on it for some miles as a test dummy, but it will be made of nylon and the properties should be able to withstand the environment that it will be in (if you know what a factor of safety is, I set mine to 1.5, a typical FoS in the automotive field from what I know).
I personally have dealt with two broken valves, one when I first purchased it, and this one when I received it and barely wiggled it, it broke. A couple times I have read about other peoples valves breaking and having to purchase a oil filter housing either brand new ($200+) or buying one on Ebay and hoping everything is included (still $100+).
Thanks for reading, and hopefully anyone who runs into this issue again can work through this!
I am currently in progress (90%) done with a replacement/reproduction oil bypass valves. I know this is somewhat of a common problem, and the parts are unavailable unless you purchase the oil filter housing in completion (and hope that it includes it
). I have the model finished and the prototype is on the way. I plan on running my car on it for some miles as a test dummy, but it will be made of nylon and the properties should be able to withstand the environment that it will be in (if you know what a factor of safety is, I set mine to 1.5, a typical FoS in the automotive field from what I know).I personally have dealt with two broken valves, one when I first purchased it, and this one when I received it and barely wiggled it, it broke. A couple times I have read about other peoples valves breaking and having to purchase a oil filter housing either brand new ($200+) or buying one on Ebay and hoping everything is included (still $100+).
Thanks for reading, and hopefully anyone who runs into this issue again can work through this!
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 51
Likes: 2
From: Vashon Island, Washington/Mesa, Arizona
Sorry everyone, I was out of town for a while. I will try my best to get caught up to speed:
Sorry I couldn't make it! I was out of town at the time, but saw the videos.
Okay, here goes!
First of all, I completely agree to (almost) everything that you stated above. I did not know that Ford had a valve that was similar. Personally, even if I did, I would have still redesigned the component. As an ME, I feel much safer having a Nylon part in my engine than ABS or other plastic (something that OEM would write off as too expensive).
I personally believe that a class action lawsuit would be next to pointless. I will list a few points as my brain is scattered right now from midterms:
Overall, I do agree. Mini Cooper Messed up, but hey, at lease we have good airbags!
Similar response to how I stated above. This issue (oil valve) is small compared to others.
Glad to see they work well for you!!
From what is seems like it is an issue that you either have and you know it, you have it and you don't and take it to a shop to get a low oil pressure issue fixed, or you don't have it at all.
From what I gathered since owning, it is a little brother to the "trifecta" issue. Post oil change you might see the oil pressure light come on with no oil leaking or signs of fault, until you hear the top end of the engine. I figured it out by connecting an oil pressure gauge and learning that at 4000 RPM the oil pressure shot up and maintained it until idle.
It often comes with lack of care when the oil filter is replaced, in situations where it is thrown in or is one of the few models of filters that is slightly sized wrong (my case, upon purchasing). These are my closest guess's.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ief-valve.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-deeper.html
There are two quick links involving the issue. Like how it seems in the forums, and how I said above, you either have it or you don't, and if you do, it sucks taking off the filter housing.
Hopefully these helped,
-Tanner
Tanner,
Want to thank you for what your doing. This is really needed.
I have a 2002 MINI S, and mine also broke. I was not happy. I was able to get an oil filter housing from scrap yard. I took a saw and cut close to the valve, and removed it. I then placed in my MINI.
Several things I've learned about this bad design:
1. It is too small in physical size, thus has limited strength, and too hard a material, thus easy to break.
2. The filter itself bears against the valve, thus as filter cap is installed the force excessively compresses the valve.
3. As filter cap is turned the filter also turns, thus introduces shear to the valve, compounded by the downward force.
4. I learned that FORD Power Master trucks use the same type valve. FORD recognizes this and offers replacement at auto part stores, about $20, made with plastic. I purchased one. I installed this and it fit neatly into the scap MINI housing. Checking the clearance shows that the FORD part is too short to match the MINIS's valve height, thus too much oil will flow back into engine, thus reducing flow and/or pressure. The FORD part will work if a small plastic piece can be "glued" to the top of this valve, to gain same stroke as MINI part.
My point is that MINI screwed up. Part is poor design and they need to offer replacement, and offer parts via a parts store, FORD does it. Reference DORMAN 904-261, FORD POWER Master truck, 2003-2009.
My point is that I believe that not offering a correction, and that the number of people who've had to replace their oil filter base is totally unfair to us owners, so much so, that MINI must offer a correction at no cost. Of course the issue is how to make them do that. I hate to say this, ..... but file a class action suit. Stating they made a serious error that compromised the safety of the engine, added concern and stress to owners on how to replace, and required owner to purchase an expensive part to repair that require several hundred dollars to fix, and negated the value and enjoyment of having this car.
Given this, and if an owner we have is a lawyer, then we file a class action suit stating the above, MINI offer corrected part, and return payments to those who've had to pay such costs, citing that FORD has this part via local parts stores.
I myself would pay $50 for this part, just not to have to deal with removing the oil assembly, for doesn't coolant need replace too?
I'm an engineer, but not mechanical. My above points would need to be validated.
MINI messed up, knows of it, and doesn't want to pay for its error. I want to state my findings. Please review my comments.
John
Want to thank you for what your doing. This is really needed.
I have a 2002 MINI S, and mine also broke. I was not happy. I was able to get an oil filter housing from scrap yard. I took a saw and cut close to the valve, and removed it. I then placed in my MINI.
Several things I've learned about this bad design:
1. It is too small in physical size, thus has limited strength, and too hard a material, thus easy to break.
2. The filter itself bears against the valve, thus as filter cap is installed the force excessively compresses the valve.
3. As filter cap is turned the filter also turns, thus introduces shear to the valve, compounded by the downward force.
4. I learned that FORD Power Master trucks use the same type valve. FORD recognizes this and offers replacement at auto part stores, about $20, made with plastic. I purchased one. I installed this and it fit neatly into the scap MINI housing. Checking the clearance shows that the FORD part is too short to match the MINIS's valve height, thus too much oil will flow back into engine, thus reducing flow and/or pressure. The FORD part will work if a small plastic piece can be "glued" to the top of this valve, to gain same stroke as MINI part.
My point is that MINI screwed up. Part is poor design and they need to offer replacement, and offer parts via a parts store, FORD does it. Reference DORMAN 904-261, FORD POWER Master truck, 2003-2009.
My point is that I believe that not offering a correction, and that the number of people who've had to replace their oil filter base is totally unfair to us owners, so much so, that MINI must offer a correction at no cost. Of course the issue is how to make them do that. I hate to say this, ..... but file a class action suit. Stating they made a serious error that compromised the safety of the engine, added concern and stress to owners on how to replace, and required owner to purchase an expensive part to repair that require several hundred dollars to fix, and negated the value and enjoyment of having this car.
Given this, and if an owner we have is a lawyer, then we file a class action suit stating the above, MINI offer corrected part, and return payments to those who've had to pay such costs, citing that FORD has this part via local parts stores.
I myself would pay $50 for this part, just not to have to deal with removing the oil assembly, for doesn't coolant need replace too?
I'm an engineer, but not mechanical. My above points would need to be validated.
MINI messed up, knows of it, and doesn't want to pay for its error. I want to state my findings. Please review my comments.
John
First of all, I completely agree to (almost) everything that you stated above. I did not know that Ford had a valve that was similar. Personally, even if I did, I would have still redesigned the component. As an ME, I feel much safer having a Nylon part in my engine than ABS or other plastic (something that OEM would write off as too expensive).
I personally believe that a class action lawsuit would be next to pointless. I will list a few points as my brain is scattered right now from midterms:
- My family owned a Ford Freestyle. This wagon had a CVT designed by Volvo, when Ford owned them. Then they split. All of a sudden, all of the tech's "disappeared" and suddenly there was no OEM support. We sold ours because a replacement was ~$7,000. Not cool Ford, not cool.
- What do you usually get back from a CAL? Mostly reimbursement, not a solution to the problem. Cool, I get a kickback of $0.50 for a part that will still be broken, but that $0.50 will ease my mind. (At least this is what happened when my family was involved in a CAL)
- Was there a solution for the CVT? Midlands? Power steering? We own a first generation car of a completely new line. There are bound to be problems, but quite frankly, this problem is nothing compared to other issues that are possible. I still stick with it though. I personally rebuilt my Midlands because in my mind, $100 of bearings was not only cheaper than the $1200 for a new trans or a rebuild from a shop, but I don't want any kick back to Mini/BMW at all.
- It's BMW. This is such a small problem, they personally will not care. I have tried to contact Seattle Mini to get them to buy inventory in order to stock up (as they are a large distributor) and I would essentially act as a contracted middleman for their replacement. Unfortunately, they have not responded. This would also drive prices down to close to $25.
Overall, I do agree. Mini Cooper Messed up, but hey, at lease we have good airbags!
In my opinion, constant message board attention to the issue stands the greatest chance of a satisfactory solution, although it may not result in an admission of error by Mini. Take for example my sticky post from 12 years ago, "Low speed fan resistor - we need solution." As of today (10/30/18) it has been viewed almost 600,000 times. I suspect that it was instrumental in development of the relatively inexpensive replacement resistor also sold by Dorman.
From what I gathered since owning, it is a little brother to the "trifecta" issue. Post oil change you might see the oil pressure light come on with no oil leaking or signs of fault, until you hear the top end of the engine. I figured it out by connecting an oil pressure gauge and learning that at 4000 RPM the oil pressure shot up and maintained it until idle.
It often comes with lack of care when the oil filter is replaced, in situations where it is thrown in or is one of the few models of filters that is slightly sized wrong (my case, upon purchasing). These are my closest guess's.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ief-valve.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-deeper.html
There are two quick links involving the issue. Like how it seems in the forums, and how I said above, you either have it or you don't, and if you do, it sucks taking off the filter housing.
Hopefully these helped,
-Tanner
So how common of an issue is this? Lots of car motors use the same type of relieve valve setup in their oil filter housing......you don't really hear many issues with them.
From what I can see after searching the forums......it's pretty rare for people to have any issues with them. Sure, there are a handful of people who have had issues......but that's a handful out of thousands and thousands of mini owners who have not had any issues. If it was common, wouldn't there be all kind of aftermarket solutions for the issue? Are you sure this isn't just a solution looking for a problem?
From what I can see after searching the forums......it's pretty rare for people to have any issues with them. Sure, there are a handful of people who have had issues......but that's a handful out of thousands and thousands of mini owners who have not had any issues. If it was common, wouldn't there be all kind of aftermarket solutions for the issue? Are you sure this isn't just a solution looking for a problem?
1st Gear
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
Tanner,
Please understand I was referencing the MINI design, not that you've created. I agree with each of your points and am very, very pleased with what you've done.
My lady is coming up soon, and I will get one to have ready.
TY,
John
Please understand I was referencing the MINI design, not that you've created. I agree with each of your points and am very, very pleased with what you've done.
My lady is coming up soon, and I will get one to have ready.
TY,
John
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 51
Likes: 2
From: Vashon Island, Washington/Mesa, Arizona
So how common of an issue is this? Lots of car motors use the same type of relieve valve setup in their oil filter housing......you don't really hear many issues with them.
From what I can see after searching the forums......it's pretty rare for people to have any issues with them. Sure, there are a handful of people who have had issues......but that's a handful out of thousands and thousands of mini owners who have not had any issues. If it was common, wouldn't there be all kind of aftermarket solutions for the issue? Are you sure this isn't just a solution looking for a problem?
From what I can see after searching the forums......it's pretty rare for people to have any issues with them. Sure, there are a handful of people who have had issues......but that's a handful out of thousands and thousands of mini owners who have not had any issues. If it was common, wouldn't there be all kind of aftermarket solutions for the issue? Are you sure this isn't just a solution looking for a problem?
To keep my reply short and brief: It is all from the perspective from who you are.
Thank you for the input,
-Tanner
Thanks again!
-Tanner
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
How to Change Valve
It should be the same process as a non-canister. As far as switching it, I’ve only done mine when it has been broken, so I’d you are adamant about switching it, I’d say break it??
If you don’t want to break it, I’d say either hold off or just keep one on hand until one of the tabs breaks.You should be able to buy one on OutMotoring. Go ahead and go to this address:
https://www.outmotoring.com/oil-filt...rep_12345.html
and you should be able to find it.
Thanks!!
-Tanner
I changed my oil and the drove about 10 miles to work and when I got off the freeway, the light came on. I did notice that when I started up after the change the valves rattled and the timing chain. None were present before. I put in a new tensioner and it quite down but the valve noise would come and go until a rev the engine then all was nice a smooth.. I just purchased a valve filter bypass valve from the link here. How to you remove and install? Do you have to remove the filter housing?
SF
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 21
Thread Starter
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2nd Gear
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 51
Likes: 2
From: Vashon Island, Washington/Mesa, Arizona
Sorry I haven't answered anything on here lately - I just started a full time engineering job, as well as got my Mini totaled from a box truck hitting it.
Outmotoring is still the only retailer selling the part, and it looks like it will stay that way.
PM me if you have any questions, for some reason I won't get alerts from this thread even if I have instant notifications on.
-Tanner
Vendor - 15 Years
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,932
Likes: 39
From: Knoxville TN
OutMotoring should have 40 or so units available in about 3-4 days if you would like to order one up. We will update our inventory as soon as they arrive.
__________________
865-223-6335
OutMotoring.com: Home of the finest MINI Parts + Accessories.
Shop online at www.OutMotoring.com
OutMotoring.com: Home of the finest MINI Parts + Accessories.
Shop online at www.OutMotoring.com
Neutral
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Do you have instructions on how to replace this component? Does it come with everything you need or do I need to buy additional o-rings, etc?
Also, what can happen if this bypass valve is not working correctly? Other than getting a pressure light at idle?
Thank you!!
Also, what can happen if this bypass valve is not working correctly? Other than getting a pressure light at idle?
Thank you!!
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
That's great you took the initiative to make a part for everyone. But....
there is already the check valve on the market. Ecs tuning shows it on their website:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-dorman-p...e/904-261~dor/
The part is made by Dorman part# 904261. It is available at most parts houses. They show it fitting a ford. I put one in yesterday for $10.
So, again, I commend you, but people might complain that you're charging 3 times what an alternative replacement costs.
Anyway, hope this helps out other mini enthusiasts.
there is already the check valve on the market. Ecs tuning shows it on their website:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-dorman-p...e/904-261~dor/
The part is made by Dorman part# 904261. It is available at most parts houses. They show it fitting a ford. I put one in yesterday for $10.
So, again, I commend you, but people might complain that you're charging 3 times what an alternative replacement costs.
Anyway, hope this helps out other mini enthusiasts.
Vendor - 15 Years
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,932
Likes: 39
From: Knoxville TN
That's great you took the initiative to make a part for everyone. But....
there is already the check valve on the market. Ecs tuning shows it on their website:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-dorman-p...e/904-261~dor/
The part is made by Dorman part# 904261. It is available at most parts houses. They show it fitting a ford. I put one in yesterday for $10.
So, again, I commend you, but people might complain that you're charging 3 times what an alternative replacement costs.
Anyway, hope this helps out other mini enthusiasts.
there is already the check valve on the market. Ecs tuning shows it on their website:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-dorman-p...e/904-261~dor/
The part is made by Dorman part# 904261. It is available at most parts houses. They show it fitting a ford. I put one in yesterday for $10.
So, again, I commend you, but people might complain that you're charging 3 times what an alternative replacement costs.
Anyway, hope this helps out other mini enthusiasts.
__________________
865-223-6335
OutMotoring.com: Home of the finest MINI Parts + Accessories.
Shop online at www.OutMotoring.com
OutMotoring.com: Home of the finest MINI Parts + Accessories.
Shop online at www.OutMotoring.com
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 54
Likes: 21
Please note that we and some of our customers have tested the Dorman unit out and it does NOT work and is not the same overall design and based on customer feedback will not resolve the issue with the oil pressure being incorrect. It does not fit properly and will not resolve the problem. If you find otherwise please let us know.
100% agree. It did not fit as it should.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 329
From: Panama City Beach Florida
I just ran into the same issue yesterday. I changed my oil an boom. The low oil light came on. So I removed the filter an felt around an I picked out the valve. I've always used man filters in the past with no issues. They have the felt on the end that makes contact with valve. The new filter I used was a Purolator filter. This had rubber on the end that makes contact with valve. I think what happens is the rubber if not oiled will grab the valve when tightening down filter. It twist the valve an causes it to twist an break.
So I order the valve today from Outmotoring.
So I order the valve today from Outmotoring.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Resurrecting an old thread, I know, but I didn't know this was an issue. Pulled the filter out of my Mini and saw the bypass valve at a weird angle but still in the hole. I pushed it back in and it felt like it stayed put. I installed the new filter, struggling a bit as usual with a new filter, but got it in. Started the Mini up and the Oil light stayed lit. Tried a couple more times, shutting it off, restarting it. I could hear the top end starting to chatter. Did some research and found this thread and another where OutMotoring posted a link for the bypass valve. I ordered the valve, and it arrived pretty quick. Pulled the filter back out, the old bypass valve wasn't where it was supposed to be. Removed it and snapped the new valve in place. Reinstalled the filter and my Mini is back in the race. Thank you, Tanner Stinson and OutMotoring for producing the valve, having it ready for purchase, and for this thread to be able to find a solution for a problem I didn't know I had at the time. Perfect fit.
Thanks for reviving this thread!
I've been doing my own oil and filter changes, every 5k-7k mi, on my '04 R53 since 2008 after the initial warranty expired.
I've subsequently been changing my oil every 3,5 - 4k mi since 2012. I joined NAM in 2021 and had come across this discussion.
Although, I have never had the original plunger/bypass oil valve break - After having read this thread (at that time), I immediately purchased one of the reproduction valves from outmotoring as a back-up.
I'm currently due for an oil and filter change in 500 mi. Now having seen this revived thread had reminded me.
I have boxes and boxes and boxes of backup MINI parts. I've gone through all my boxes of parts and can't seem to find the outmotoring valve I'd purchased three years ago.
Many thanks for the link still being active. I'll be ordering a new/backup again this week.
I've been doing my own oil and filter changes, every 5k-7k mi, on my '04 R53 since 2008 after the initial warranty expired.
I've subsequently been changing my oil every 3,5 - 4k mi since 2012. I joined NAM in 2021 and had come across this discussion.
Although, I have never had the original plunger/bypass oil valve break - After having read this thread (at that time), I immediately purchased one of the reproduction valves from outmotoring as a back-up.
I'm currently due for an oil and filter change in 500 mi. Now having seen this revived thread had reminded me.
I have boxes and boxes and boxes of backup MINI parts. I've gone through all my boxes of parts and can't seem to find the outmotoring valve I'd purchased three years ago.
Many thanks for the link still being active. I'll be ordering a new/backup again this week.
Another thanks for pulling up this older thread. My daughter's '02 MCS just started randomly flashing low oil pressure lights and developed top-end rattling. This is a reasonable part to throw at an older car while in the diagnosis phase.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 255
Bryan
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