ASC can also retard engine torque to stop the wheels from spinning.

DSC incorporates yaw and steering sensors (that are not present with ASC) to give the computer information to help the car go where the driver intends it to by braking individual wheels and/or cutting engine torque. That's the idea, anyway.

 

ASC is the feature that most "spirited" drivers hate and want to turn off. DSC is the one that will truly save your butt if you are starting to lose control.

Think of it this way - DSC is ASC "plus more"... and the added "plus more" stuff is good stuff, that no driver can emulate (can YOU apply braking power to individual wheels, in order to prevent a spin?).

It's a shame that MINI didn't make a way for those with DSC to disable ASC yet keep all other DSC functions active, because that's how I'd drive my car 99% of the time if it were possible.

As it stands now, I leave DSC on 99% of the time, unless I know I'm about to power across an intersection or something (with a break in traffic)... and I don't want a little wheel slippage to stop me dead in my tracks when ASC shuts down power.

 

I am "reaching" to buy the MCS, so I need to keep the price as low as possible. At $500 each for DSC and LSD, I can save a grand, which significantly reduces the down and the monthly payment. (This is helpful since I already own an '06 car of another marquee.)

My questions:

1) Since the Mini is such a light, go-kart-like car, does it really rely on these systems? I can see them as useful safety devices on heavier cars like a BMW 3 series or 5 series, but on a little car like the mini I wonder if they're often triggered.

2) Although I don't intend to track the MCS, I would like to drive the mountain twisties aggressively. I have taken driving courses in the past and will add a few more driving courses, so I don't think my skill will be limiting; taking this into consideration, will I skid off the mountain roads and over the trees if the MCS doesn't have the DSC and the LSD?

I know that if I can afford them, I should add them (I can hear the recommendation now). But I would like to avoid their purchase and I am wondering if I will still be ok driving the car aggressively on occasions.

Thank you for your imput!

 

I'm in the minority here, but heck here goes... No you don't need that darned DSC or Electro Nanny as I call it. If you want to drive the canyons I'd recommend getting the LSD. It does make a difference.

I applaud you for taking driving courses, money very well spent.

 

Neither one is absolutely necessary. Then again, neither is a MINI. (heresy!)

DSC - Useful if you lose control of your car and a spin or slide can be recovered by a computer which can brake each of the four wheels independently and instantly. A safety net, really.

LSD - Useful if your inside wheel loses traction due to heavy loading on the outside wheel. More performance than safety related.

A salient question - is buying brand new absolutely necessary? Now that the used MINI market has rationalized, you can save $ and get a MINI with more equipment than you otherwise could on a new one. The tradeoffs are time invested in finding the spec you want, and mileage on the car.

 

Eric Rowland sums it up well. If you have taken driving classes, you are probably able to avoid situations where DSC would be helpful. Since I am not, I appreciate having DSC around.

On the other hand, since you've taken driving classes, you are probably in the position to appreciate a limited-slip differential, and may miss it if you don't get it. At $500, it adds about $15-20 to your monthly payment. Only you can say if it's worth it to you.

(And if you're worried about whether you can swing an extra $15-20 a month, maybe now isn't the best time to be buying a new car...)

 

You can probably do without the DSC. Its a safety feature in some situations, but almost a hazard in others. Like when you want to turn sharply from a stop and accelerate (like when you pull into traffic from a shopping center driveway). If it detects one of the wheels slipping, it'll retard your ignition, and you may not be able to accelerate enough to avoid a problem. When they're driving "for performance" lot of folks turn DSC off anyway.

The LSD will make you more competitive in the twisties. if that's important to you, you might want to spring for it. If not, you'll still have a blast with the car.

 

I highly reccomend getting the LSD, though the DSC is something I probably could've dealt without. I think I will be happy to have it in the winter months, but I have turned it off any time I am going to accelerate hard or enjoy the twisties...

Drew

 

Definitely not necessary.

The MINI alone will offers very good handling characteristcs by nature of its stiff suspension setup, short wheelbase, fantastic brakes, FWD, and weight distribution.

If your budget is stretched and you had to choose between the two, i would pick the dsc over the lsd. To put things in perspective, a majority of cars are not equipped with LSD, its pricey, and possibly another item that could fail on the car. Said by the previous poster, its a nice to have option but not a necessity...

I'd rather have the safety net of the DSC (which i have on my e46 m3) for my wife or family in the event of an emergency. If youre stretching the budget as it is, do without. I also recommend not getting the sport package. Those 17" s-lites with runflats actually hurt performance and are definitely not a necessity.

 

If you don't get the LSD, your regret could potentially be that your car isn't as quick coming out of the corners as it could be.

If you don't get the DSC, your regret could potentially be that your car gets damaged when conditions conspire against you.

I'd rather have DSC.

 

I was in the same situation, trying to price an MCSa for the lowest price possible. In hindsight having read up on the benefits of DSC, I should have gone with a non-metallic paint color and used the money to get DSC. Hope that decision doesn't come back to haunt me.

 

What your post fails to mention is that whether or not DSC is selected, the "hazardous" part (i.e. cutting power when you accelerate hard and slip the wheels) will be there anyway. The problem you talk about isn't really DSC, but ASC+T...

DSC adds additional non-hazardous features on top of ASC+T... in my opinion, ALL of the additional features are very, very good safety features to have, and every MCS owner should seriously consider adding DSC, unless they will NEVER drive the car in rain or snow.

That being said, I too turn off the system sometimes - but only when I plan on driving aggressively in perfect conditions (i.e. totally dry roads). DSC has saved my butt multiple times in poor conditions, and I ALWAYS have it on when the roads are slick.

In the ideal world, we'd be able to enable all of the DSC-specific features, yet leave the ASC+T features disabled, at the same time. Unfortunately that choice is not available.

LSD is great too (esp. for aggressive cornering), but I think DSC is more important overall. Here's my take on it... if you have to choose:

1) If you live in a very dry state (California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, etc.) that rarely gets much rain, and NEVER sees snow... choose LSD over DSC. Or choose neither.
2) If you sometimes have to drive in poor weather, choose DSC over LSD.

Of course, both is great, but yeah not everyone wants to spend $1000.

 

I've driven a non-LSD equipped MCS and a MCS with LSD on the same mountain roads. The LSD does help. It's still about correctly using the throttle but the LSD helps when you get a little too agressive with the throttle. If you plan to do more track time and play in the mountains. A factory LSD at $500 is a good deal.

As for the DSC. The same situation. One with and one without. I'm not claiming to be a great driver but at one point the DCS was correcting me at a point where I have safely been before without DSC. And safely went through again without the DSC. Fortunately it can be turned off in spirited situations like that and also during track events. I have yet to be in a situation that called for the DSC when I got beyond my limits. So I have no idea how well it works in correcting your mess ups.

 

What he said.

I turn off DSC sometimes because in some cases I feel it adds more risk than it prevents -- I think it drops engine power by way too much when it does kick in. It really is a "nanny", and I'd probably feel better about having a new driver use it than not, but for an experienced driver, I'd say it's pretty optional.

I don't have LSD in my MCS. I wish I did, in a way, as there are times where I can see it would help, but unless you're actually racing somewhere I don't think you really need it. Under normal driving conditions you won't get much use out if it, in my opinion. Under "spirited" driving, I think it would be handy but still not mandatory by any means.

 

Again, you guys are completely missing the point. Whether you choose the DSC option or not... every single MCS that is manufactured includes the "hazardous, nanny-like" feature under hard acceleration. It's called ASC+T... and DSC is a superset of ASC+T... meaning that it adds additional features to ASC+T.

But again, those additional features are good features, and are VERY much worth having in inclement conditions. I have personally experienced them working in wet & snowy weather, and they saved me much heartache.

So telling people not to buy DSC because of the "nanny" features is doing them a disservice... all you're telling them to do is not to buy the good features... they're going to be stuck with the annoying/nanny features (ASC+T) anyway, no matter what they do... so they're going to have to turn them off in good weather, whether they buy DSC or not.

Strife - where you said "for an experienced driver, I'd say it's pretty optional"... the DSC can do things that NO human can do. Tell me, from the driver controls, can you brake one individual wheel to bring an off-course car back on track?

 

You don't need those stinkin devices

Cars have existed LONG before any of this electronic mumbo jumbo existed and people lived.

If you want to save the money, then save the money,

Thinks seriously and hard about this. You drop $500 for LSD, WHY? Since your not racing the car, are you going to go around that corner at 10/10s? Are going to go around 0.02 seconds quicker? If not, why are you even thinking about it? (if you were RACING ... not track days but actually racing, my answer would be different).

Who cares and will you even notice it?

Save your money. Its just another way for MINI to take your money.

 

A Spade is a Spade, huh?

Thanks, Chows4us. You're correct that I won't track the car, and will only do spirited driving around the twisties. Going fast around corners will be done solo because (obviously) I wouldn't race anyone on the road and therefore a fraction of a second around each turn won't add up to anything meaningful like it would on a track.

So, Chows4us, you think the difference between having the LSD and not having one would be only fractions of a second, huh? I don't think that's enough to affect the smile on my face at each turn.

I've riden a motorcycle for years, and there aren't electro nannies or DSC on a bike, other than your sharp eyes and intelligent judgement.

Thanks for all your imput!

 

Chows - your argument makes sense against LSD, but not against DSC. Sure, cars exist long before DSC came along... they also existed long before anti-lock brakes, airbags and seatbelts. Does that make those features a waste of money?

And, I might add... sure, some people lived without them... but a lot of people died too, many of whom that would have been saved. The argument of "I survived it so everyone else will" is patently false.

Don't confuse safety features with performance features. LSD is definitely more of a performance feature, whereas DSC is more of a safety feature. Please don't lump them together.

Safety features are ALWAYS worth the money, IMO... provided they can be disabled when they truly aren't needed or are getting in the way (in the same fashion that a seatbelt can be disconnected).

powerband - your bike doesn't have any of these features... but do you (or would you) ride your bike in the rain or snow, if you could help it? I don't think it's a fair comparison, to be honest.

 

I was discussing the LSD (although my first sentence might have implied that). My example was the LSD. To often I see the "enthusiasts" talk about the car HAS to have LSD . "DO NOT order it without LSD" Yet I would bet that except for a very few people on this board who truly "race", it makes any bit of difference in normal street driving. If you have to have the very latest in all performance technologies, fine but then those ppl are constantly buying the latest IC design only to change it again with the next design comes out, etc. in an endless cycle.

IMO, you have to have a real need for something IF you are worried about price. If you don't care about the prices, different story.

I really wasn't harping on the DSC. IMO, DSC should be standard except there is no way BMW is going to make it standard on their low-end cars.

 

I would say this.

Most people never drive their cars nor are capable of driving them any better than at 8/10s and that will scare the crap out of them.

If you were "racing", then every 10ths of a second counts.
If your not racing, whats the point? Even if your driving every turn, every where at 10/10s (the limit of adhesion) the difference in how fast your got around the corner ... I would bet you would never notice because your eyes would be like . You would have to be so concentrated on the road because if you weren't, you would be in a ditch.

Most people do NOT drive like that day in, day out.

That is my point.

If money is an issue, save it for better, stickier tires.

 

Let's look at the first TWO sentences you wrote:You said devices - plural. More than one... and this thread is talking about both. You also said "electronic mumbo jumbo", yet of the two options being discussed, only DSC is electronic - LSD is mechanical.

So whether you meant to or not, you basically shot down DSC... hence why I spoke up to defend it... and the fact that powerband responded with "there aren't electro nannies or DSC on a bike" suggest that s/he also thought you were talking about DSC as well as LSD.

I'm glad to now know that you think otherwise though.

 

powerband... as I said above... no matter what options you buy or don't buy on an MCS - guess what? You get the "electro nanny" anyway. It's standard on all MCSes. Yes, you can turn it off... and many do (including me) in good conditions, but wouldn't you like to have additional safety features for those bad weather days? DSC gives you just that.

 

I know, bad on my part. I understand why you jumped on that.

Yeah I agree, DSC should be standard and I think it is on BMWs.

 

I would disagree with this statement. I've done plenty of track days and am comfortable with my driving abilities. That said, on public roads, you never know when you will encounter gravel, ice, or any slick surface. DSC can do what no driver can do - modulate each wheel idividually.
I've had DSC come on while driving in a heavy rain on the highway. Maybe I would have had an issue, maybe not - I'll never know. But for $500, I'll take that insurance policy - it's less than I pay annually, and you only pay it once (unless it breaks!) As Edge says, you get ASC+T whether you want it or not, so DSC is a no brainer if the cost is not an issue.
One of our own here drove with his DSC off, hit a slick spot in a curve and totalled his car. Would the DSC have saved him? We'll never know. But it might have. Bottom line is that if I did NOT have it, and crashed, the 'what if' would drive me nuts. YMMV.

powerband - The advantage of LSD is not 'fractions of a second' (you're not racing) it's the annoying/frustrating feeling of having that inside wheel spinning when you'd rather it be pulling you through the corner. FWIW, I've experienced that on the track, but not on public roads. Personally, I'd get it anyway.

 

Eric, that is exactly my point. And if your tire is spinning and not pulling, then your losing fractions of seconds if racing. (or was this just track days or drivers class?)