No, it isn't a fair comparison; I was being facetious . However, I've never ridden my motorcycle in the snow but have on numerous occassions rode in the rain. The same low-tech safety device is applied on the motorcycle in the rain as it shoud be in any car: good judgement.

More often than not, it is poor judgement that gets people into trouble when driving in inclement weather -- on two wheels, four wheels, or eighteen. Of course, the argument would be that an unexpected incident can erupt in the rain to cause a knee-jerk swerve that the DSC would correct (maybe, maybe not). But if this is the argument, then there are lots of unexpected incidents that can occur on dry roads that only a guardian angel can get you out of. In any case, I'm not arguing against a safety device like DSC; if given the choice, I'd have one installed in all my cars... and motorcycle!

With all this talk about safety, I'm reconsidering adding the DSC. Any other input?

Thanks!

 

I suggest you take a test drive in a MINI with all the Nanny's. See what you think of them before you spend your money. That goes for the LSD too. That won't be easy on a limited test drive, but it may give you some idea.

I put 300 hundred miles on a friends MINI & by the end of the day I swore off Nanny's. There are very good Electro Nanny's out there. Trouble is MINI doesn't use them. I was able to fix the ASC problem with a little circuit for about $50.

 

Crashton, the only way to truly test DSC is by putting the car in a dangerous situation... sliding on gravel, oil slick, wet roads or snow. For most people test driving a car that isn't theirs, unless they make a deliberate point to "push" the car harder while turning/corning in bad traction, all you will encounter (and hate, like the rest of us) is DSC.

Making a decision on DSC based solely upon experiencing (and hating) ASC+T is a bad decision. The DSC-specific features are much harder to force to "kick in", but when they do, you will be very glad they are there.

I apologize if I'm being hasty in reading into what you wrote, but without supplying the specifics on what you did to trigger the DSC-only features, it quite honestly sounds like you may have been cursing ASC+T... and I don't blame you. I have the same circuit you described (Ian Cull's Auto-Up circuit), and it's great to have it automatically disabled when you -know- you won't be needing it, but I see so much misinformation about the two options, that DSC gets an unfair bad rap all the time.

And I beg to differ - MINI does use a very good electronic nanny... and DSC is it. ASC+T sucks though.

 

lol you peeps either live in way too congested areas or just drive too slow. i've experienced single wheel spin in corners and on take-off in every car i've ever owned that did not have LSD. on the street. often at quite legal velocities.

is it a necessity? no.

if you never have had it will you miss it? no.

is it a sensible addition to a performance oriented "hot hatch" that will benefit your driving experience on the track AND on the street, especially if you think driving the dragon or similar roads is "fun"?

YOU BETCHA!

 

I turn off my DSC unless I'm driving in bad weather. I would have ordered the LSD if it had been an option for 2003 MINIs. After extensive driving of Maximusmini's 2006 MCS with LSD and DSC, I have found that the go-kart handling is even moreso when I turn off the DSC. But I still want it for inclement conditions...that is an absolute. I'm thinking my next mod may be a Quaife LSD.

 

Woot, Clover going hard core Next it will be a lightweight flywheel and stage 2 clutch

 

Been driving for 24 years and bought the Mini because of it's handling. Love driving twistie and thought I was a pretty good (dare I say fast) driver. Went to Mini's on the Dragon '06 and now realize I'm to scared of crashing 25K worth of car to drive it to it's limit. So for me:

1. The DSC was worth $500. Either it, or ASC + T, saved my butt when the Mini had about 800 miles on it. Never realized a front wheel drive car could slide the rear end.

2. LSD wasn't worth it. I'm sure it's beneficial for the people I was holding up on the Dragon but, I'll obviously never be able to get $500 worth of use out it.

 

When you are rounding a curve, letting off the gas quickly to get the benefit of the upgraded sway bar to help with loosing some of that understeer. That is not ASC.

 

Make sure you get the rain sensing wipers and the auto-dimming rear view mirror.

IMO get the MFSW and the fog lights, (I don't like empty holes in my bumpers), and forget all the other options.

 

Chowsie, I have modded Wanda in stages:

• I drove her stock to the first Dragon meet in 2003
• Just before setting out on the second cross-country trip to MOTD-04, I got a K&N Typhoon CAI installed at Steve's Auto Clinic in SoCal
• At MOTD-05, Detroit Tuned installed the 15% Alta Pulley and a Unichip
• At Fall on the Dragon 05, MKO gave me a custom Whalen Shift Machine
• This MOTD-06, Detroit Tuned installed a Milltek Exhaust, HR Compound Rear Swaybar, and Irridium plugs, as well as re-mapped the Unichip for the new exhaust

Next MOTD-07, I'm considering having the crank pulley and the Quaife LSD installed.

 

After each MOTD do your cross country times improve?

 

I'm never in a hurry, but I can tell you that with a bone-stock Wanda in May 2003, I left the FL Panhandle on a Monday at 7:30 AM CDT and arrived home in Los Angeles that Wednesday at about 7 PM PDT.

 

LSD=$500
LSD over 5 years = 1825 days
$500/1825 days = 0.274/day
100 turns per year when your wheel doesn't slip = 500 turns
500 turns = $1 per turn

What's your fun factor worth? I'd pay 0.274/day to have the limited slip but alas, I bought my '04 MCS used. Such is life.

 

Just for giggles I'll toss in a couple of facts about DSC (a decent Wikipedia article is here).

According to a 2004 NHTSA study, DSC reduces crashes by 35%. This last June, IIHS put DSC in the same class as seat belts and air bags in terms of saving lives. Personally, that is more than enough for me. I'm never going to own a car without DSC again. And given the skill set of the average D.C. area driver, I need all the help I can get in avoiding accidents.

 

I like your perspectives.

-

 

A significant number. I don't have the time to read the Wikipedia article at this time and will read it later, but I wonder what kind of cars the percentage was based on... the bigger and heavier cars full of options and standard equipment or the smaller nimbler kinds like the Miata, Lotus and Mini?

In any case, I'm slowly factoring in payment for the DSC with my MCS order -- not a final decision, yet.

More input is always fun and helpful to read.

Thanks a million!

 

No, but as an experienced driver, I find I don't have that problem, erm, ever.

I know, I know, unforeseen acts of god can effect everyone, but if MINI offered a Speed Racer style hydraulic chasm-jumping system, I wouldn't advise buying that either, for the same reason: yes, in the event you find yourself in that situation, you'll wish you had it, but you have to draw the line somewhere if you're on a budget, and you don't really need a hydraulic chasm-jumping system. Just try to avoid chasms.



If you're not on a budget then by all means, get everything. It's all good but it's not all absolutely necessary as the OP was asking.

Although I would like a chasm jumping system, if any MINI engineers are reading this. Maybe for the '08 model...

 

I have neither, drive it on the track and although I wish I had LSD to help with track times (can't get it since I have a lowly automatic), I live in California and never have to worry about slippery areas so I am fine without DSC.

 

If I sold my other car, I'd pump the MSC full of options that I would like to have, DSC and LSD included. I'd go for the Works package. But, having a Mini for fun, I have to justify it to my lovely wife, who has kindly reminded me that one of the options on the new Mini is the Divorce Package. :impatient

2006mcsasteve, I also live in California where the road condition is almost always boringly good and I rarely (if ever) encounter gravel, sand, dirt or slippery conditions on any of the mountain roads around here. This is why I have a hard time paying extra money for DSC. A new set of stickies and some suspension modification (much later down the road... add-ons that are slow and under the wife's radar) will improve the MCS's already-excellent handling traits.

I consider myself an above-average skilled driver (driving courses in the past) and I will take more driving courses in the future, so I'm confident that I'll never use poor judgement on the road. And for situations (or other drivers) outside of my control, we have what people refer to as "defensive driving," a much-forgotten skill in today's cell-phone-focused driving world.

Still, though, DSC or no DSC? Peace-of-mind, or paying extra for something that I may not need? Divorce or keep the car simple? Decisions, decisions.

Thanks.

 

Well, that's a valid point. I'm just so used to hitting the switch labeled 'DSC' and cussing at it, when it tries to save me by killing my ability to accelerate in a pinch, that I forgot there's another layer beneath it.

In thinking of ASC+T and DSC as the same thing, I considered the number of times (many) when the ASC+T placed me in jeopardy, vs. the number of times (a few) when DSC may have saved me. In either case I haven't had an accident, nor can I prove that an accident has been avoided by these features. But then, I guess its an apples and oranges situation. Given the Wikipedia safety stat.s,s DSC is probably worth considering.

As for the LSD, its pretty reasonable as a factory option, and fairly expensive as an after-market item. Almost everytime I make a right turn from a stop, I have to struggle to keep my inside wheel from spinning.

Are you sure you can't squeeze both into the equation?

 

If I had to squeeze one of both into the purchase, for some reason I'd squeeze the LSD first. The ASC+T that comes standard with the car has given me enough comfort that I felt comfortable asking the group if DSC is absolutely necessary.

Here's what is still blurry in my head...

If you have both the LSD and the DSC, won't one cancel the other in certain situations? For example, if you drive aggressively around a corner and one wheel breaks loose, the LSD is triggered to keep you accelerating through, no? Well, as a response to a wheel breaking loose won't the DSC get triggered, thereby dropping the engine power and/or putting on the break(s)? One is to keep you accelerating through for the go-kart feeling (LSD), while the other (DSC) is to slow you down to "regain" control.

Until I understand the relationship between the two mechanisms further (hopefully one of you kind folks can help), the combination to me seems contradictory. No?

Over to you.

Thanks.

 

The LSD will only do anything while you are on the gas. How many accidents / scary moments have you had where you've stayed on the gas? DSC will function when you are on the gas, on the brakes, coasting, whatever.

As has been said before, LSD is a performance feature, DSC is a safety feature.

DSC makes a pretty poor performance feature, and LSD makes a pretty poor safety feature.

 

It's been said that the DSC and LSD play well with each other. Supposedly the LSD allows the ASC+T to kick in later, though that would imply a different program algorithm. Hmmm.

Note that wheel spin invokes ASC+T, NOT DSC. DSC uses yaw and steering sensors and activates when it has determined that the car is not going where the driver is intending it to go.

If I had to choose one, in western/mid-low CA, I'd go LSD as well. Just don't crash.

 

Thanks, Eric. That makes it more clear in my mind. When steering input and yaw (vectors) are electronically compared with eachother, I guess the response from the DSC is independent from wheel slip. I'm almost there...

 

Think of the LSD as "two wheel drive." It makes sure that power is distributed across both front wheels. It does this mechanically to overcome a shortcoming of all standard differentials. That being that, when the wheel on one side begins to slip, that wheel (the wheel that is slipping) actually is given more power. Thus it slips even more and very little power is left for the wheel that's not slipping. This is usually encountered in a sharp turn when you are accelerating. Again, the LSD overcomes this purely as a result of its mechanical design.

If, despite the mechanical action of the LSD, you still have wheel slippage or skidding, then the sensors and software of the DSC system come into play.