No, it's a big difference. No amount of driving skill can do what an LSD does. An LSD transfers torque from the slipping wheel to the one with traction. You can just take your foot off the gas and mitigate the wheelspin if you don't have an LSD, but it's not the same thing.

LSD = GREAT, but not the same as (or better or worse than) DSC.

 

I have the DSC on my Mini and I'm glad it's there.

I have yet to need it but if something happens that it should engage, I'll be glad it's there.

My opinion (for whatever you think it's worth) is that if you are driving so aggressively on dry pavement on the street that the DSC kicks in, then you are driving too fast. If you want to drive like that, go to an autocross or a track day at a real race track.

 

Hmmm, Maybe my start up procedure will cast some light on this dark subject.

1) insert key in ignition
2) depress clutch
3) crank engine to life
4) hold up DSC switch until disconnected
5) select gear
6) release clutch
7)motor on

Useful in snow and rain, questionable at other times.

 

And no amount of driving skill can do what DSC does (apply brakes to individual wheels).



And I'm one of the whackos who keeps DSC on on the track, too (but not when autocrossing). So obviously, my opinion is not to be trusted. But, get the DSC. Cheap insurance.

 

Get DSC, get a toggle.

If you can, get it if only for use when the weather turns sour. I don't have it because it would generally interfere w/ my neighborhood driving. We don't have snow, and I don't drive like a madman either.

 

Sorry, I thought i was in the mini talk forum.

 

No worries. I've moved this to the MINI Talk forum.

 

I'd go for it. It's definitely useful in foul weather, and when you don't see every little obstacle that can slip you up - even if you aren't driving like a madman. It's not terribly expensive, and can be turned off if you don't like it. I believe Ian (the fellow that makes the auto-up window circuits) also makes one that turns the DSC off at startup. As for me, I always leave it on.

 

DSC is designed as a passive safety feature- something I like when my wife or kids are driving and the weather isn't as good. It's not a performance feature like LSD is. Although LSD can also serve as a passive safety feature when road conditions are less than ideal.

If you drive slowly in bad weather you'd hardly use DSC but if you did drive fast enough to loose traction then DSC would kick in and help you to maintain control. I always drive on the street with DSC and only turn it off at the track or at autocross.

 

Do it. It's extra insurance.

 

I got DSC. I leave it on. It has helped. I like it.

No one ever expects to get in an accident, yet people do it everyday. Might as well spend $500 to make it a little less likely that you'll be one of them.

If you've got $500 to spend on it, get it. It's a lot cheaper than spinning out and slamming into something (or someone).

 

Get it. Period. Leave it on for day to day driving. Who knows when a wreck may happen up ahead and you have to make a split second lane change at 70 (or above) mph. Or your significant other may need a little help. Like the others said: It's cheap insurance. You don't really want to roll your MINI up in a little ball do you? The good part is you can turn it OFF when autocrossing or on the track, but for normal driving, you SHOULD never even notice it unless you get in over your head (hey, it happens to the best of us). The EPS in my R32 saved my butt one day, made a believer out of me.

 

It's great piece of mind, especially if someone other than you is driving - someone who has yet to master the art of right foot control when driving this pocket rocket.

 

By way of review, there is a switch to selectively disable it. And, there's a neato aftermarket mod that automatically disables it when the car is started. You can always re-enable it if conditions warrant.

For the most part, I agree that it's a good thing for everyday street use. Or at least I did until a few days ago I was attempting to make a left turn into a business. I was stopped in a left turn lane. As I initiated my turn, I decided that I had misjudged the speed of oncoming traffic just a little. So I decided to gas it a bit more to get across quickly before the oncoming traffic got too close.

What happened next was very scary and dangerous IMO. The car basically fell flat on its face rather than squirting across the road as I had expected. By the time the DSC relinquished control, the situation had gone from good to bad to ugly. I did make it across the street, but not without causing the oncoming traffic to brake to avoid my "wounded" MINI.

I'm sure you may be questioning the wisdom of the timing of my left turn. In my opinion it should not have even been interesting. But when the car came almost to a stop, it became more than a little dramatic. I had heard of DSC interventions of this nature before, but my first encounter of this nature was enough to convince me to add another step (disable DSC) to my daily start-up routine.

I'll still use it for bad conditions, but for day-to-day driving, I'm thinking I won't be using it as much any more. I'm probably going to purchase and install Ian's Auto-up w/ Track-mode. I guess what I'm saying is that DSC is a good tool to have available but that it may not be the silver bullet it is sometimes billed as.

 

The DSC in my M3 can sometimes be intrusive. What happened to you in that intersection was you tried to launch too fast at sub-standard pavement/traction (common at intersections) and the DSC was thwarting your attempts. It's amazing how slick our roads can be, sometimes the M3's DSC light is flashing even in 2nd and 3rd gears when you gun it. That said, I leave it on for street driving. As all have said above it is insurance to keep you from losing it in poor conditions, with some experimentation, you'll learn when it's likely to kick in and adjust accordingly. On my Mini test drives, I did not drive hard enough to test its limits, that should be interesting. BTW, the first time I did an autoX in my M with the DSC turned off, I went sideways right from the starting blocks! The instructor was nonplussed, told me I did a good job of recovering from it.

 

I'll second eMINI's thoughts. I leave it on, but will turn it off when exiting a driveway onto a boulevard. These cars are so stiff and have such a short wheel base, that as you turn out of a driveway the RF wheel picks up and the DSC shuts you down. Had a couple of uncomfortable times with that.

Dave
Sunny San Diego
2003 DS/B MCS currently at the dealer having a recall visit and, hopefully dash rattles fixed.

 

I thought long and hard when ordering my MCS, and passed on DSC. I've already found the ASC intrusive and keep it turned off virtually all the time, and I can't imagine that DSC (as described above) wouldn't be more intrusive. I'm much more likely to be in situation where I DON'T want a computer deciding which wheels get to spin than I will be to go spinning out.

I bought an MCS for the same reason I have a '67 Mini Cooper S -- to enjoy the process of driving. I'd get a Lexus if I wanted to be more disconnected from the driving experience.

I'm spending half the money I saved on DSC on a high-speed driving school this weekend. I expect that improving my skills as a driver will yield far greater safety in the long run.

 

I frankly just don't know about this.

I have been an autocross instructor for many years, and do a few track days every year, but I am still just not THAT confident that I'd never be caught off guard by something out on the highway.

Sure, if I am prepared and expecting it, I would never spin the car on a public road. But when a deer or something runs out in the road when you're in the middle of a corner...

If all of my years of closed-track performance driving experience has taught me anything, it's that I'm STILL not as good as I thought I was before I started all of this

 

As a long-time track-junkie, I know exactly what you mean. That was exactly the logic I had been using to determine when/where I would disable DSC.

But sitting helpless in the face of oncoming traffic was an eye-opener for me. I'm not making any recommendations here, but I'm going to place more trust in my own skills than in the electronics going forward.

 

Ya, there are times when the computers get it wrong, no doubt about that.

Our Civic used to trigger the ABS every time I'd step on the brakes with the R-compound tires. They weren't even CLOSE to locking, but the ABS sure thought something was wrong. It was probably insufficient damping in the suspension lifting a rear wheel off the ground or something, but I ended up getting the Mini before I dug too far in to that problem.

The Mini, on the other hand, seems to have ABS tuning that's fine for autocross. It never gets in the way.

 

Quote >>> LSD is mechanical but it is enabled all of the time to "help" you have the most traction as is possible. It acts to assist you, not override your actions like the DSC sometimes does.

DSC is not active all of the time, only when it senses loss of traction- hence the "nanny" comes alive.

I couldn't have said that better myself.


On snow & ice or dirt & gravel I'd rather NOT have abs. It's a wonderful thing that it keeps wheels from locking & lets you maintain steering control, but the trouble is under the conditions listed above it makes your braking distances much longer. Not what I want. I've been driving a long time & I know to release the brakes to get the car to turn. People that have grown up with abs cars often don't get this. This is not a knock against them, just stating a fact.

Rather than buy DSC why not buy a day or two at a driving school? Could make a difference in the way you drive. It will make you a better safer driver. I believe you'd find that the electronic nanny really isn't needed.

Chuck

 

I don't believe it intereferes with everyday driving UNLESS you drive like a madman. I think, like ABS, it only kicks in when things are going serious wrong.

As far as I can tell, it will save my butt someday and it's worth my kids having a daddy for $500.

 

This discussion has been had ad nauseum (do a search on the forums), but I feel I should add my $.02 here. With e-throttle, ABS, CBC, ASC+T (am I forgetting something?), don't we already have enough computer-controlled nonsense on our cars? Both ASC and DSC are very aggressive nannies that can engage at inopportune, inappropriate times. In driving school accelerating out of an emergency situation is often taught as just as important as braking -- and personally I don't want a computer preventing me from accelerating to avoid a potential accident.

In 10 years will computers just drive our cars for us, questioning our every input in the name of "safety"?

Similar to Crashton's opinion above, IMO spend the $500 on a one-day driving school and pay attention while driving (i.e., no cell phone, no munching on your Big Mac) and you are much less likely to get in an accident than if you rely on DSC as some kind of magical insurance to bail you out of an emergency situation.

 

Yeah, spend $500.00 for one day in a driving school, and build up brass *****, and excellent driving skills.What are you guys talking about? Read the first thread, the guy does not race nor drive aggressive. If you don't want DSC intervention, just simply turn it off. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out, right? I am not an advocate for DSC, and truely, has not saved my life so far, because when I am hard on the car, I SWITCH IT OFF... But overall value for $500.00 is inarguable.

 

I have been really interested in this thread. I have only put about 2k on my 05 mcs that has DSC and LSD. This weekend on a very twisty section of road I hit a small bump at an apex and chirped the inside wheel, with the DSC on. I did not notice any loss of power coming out of the curve and did not see the light come on as I would have expected after reading some of these posts. Maybe I didn't see the light 'cause I was looking at the next corner. (if the DSC light coming on is supposed to be a warning it should be on the tach and a lot brighter by the way) I think that I have read on another thread that the LSD makes the DSC less intrusive. Is this true? If so get both and only have the DSC come on when you really loose it